v0.31 Talk:Armor

Armor raw changes

Main armor types have been renamed to "breastplate" and "mail shirt" respectively. Someone with some understanding of armor RAWs should work on the new page. I had to ask just to learn what the [STEP] tags did.

Breastplates have no LBSTEP nor UBSTEP, and now have a simple [ARMORLEVEL:3] in place of all of the old modifiers. They also have no [VALUE] tag.

The community is still working on figuring out what all the different variables do(if anything there appear to be some placeholders in different parts of different raws), and how materials effect the results. The current best description is to say that, for armor, adamantine>steel>bronze(bismuth or not)>iron>=copper>everything else and that adding more layers at least doesn't seem to hurt(except for weight/speed considerations). Some have gone a little further than that(http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=53571.msg1151052#msg1151052). --PencilinHand 00:09, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Having worked on the problem some I must point out that there is an important difference between having no LBSTEP or UBSTEP and having zero LBSTEP and UBSTEP. A lot of work still needs to be done, especially with regards to how materials work with armor. Also, could everybody remember to sign their work like Zorro? --PencilinHand 06:20, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Extensive coverage testing of various armors and UB/LBSTEP reveals some buggy behavior:

-The only way to protect [STANCE], [GRASP], [HEAD], or [UPPERBODY] parts (feet, hands, head, and upperbody) is with armor worn on them specifically(LOWERBODY parts may be protected by armor worn on the UPPERBODY as well as the LOWEBODY).

-[LIMB]s (arms and legs) are correctly protected by armors, pants, gloves, and gauntlets with appropriate UBSTEP and LBSTEP values. For example, lower arms can be protected by body armor with UPSTEP >=2 as well as gloves with LBSTEP>=1.

-Currently(31.03), the ONLY way to protect parts that are not [LIMB]s,[STANCE]s,[GRASP]s,[HEAD]s or [UPPER/LOWERBODY]s parts (such as facial features, toes, fingers, throat, vestigial wings, any cosmetic custom parts, etc)is by exploiting a bug. You need a robe, or a dress; an UPPERBODY armor with UBSTEP:MAX. Armor configured this way will protect all [LIMB]s that are do not qualify for LBSTEP coverage, as well as fingers and toes etc, but it will NOT protect, hands, feet, or heads. Gauntlets, boots, and helms currently protect hands, feet, and heads, but not fingers, toes, or facial features. This is both counter intuitive, and at odds with toady's comments on the subject.

--Derigo 05:15, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Whether or not we know the exact mechanics of the various STEPS, I have added them to the Armor Tables so we can at least have a reference to what armor has what. Also, they are now sortable by those #s, because that was really bugging me.

Does anyone know what the BONE/LEATHER/ETC categories are tracking? Because I think it is a holdover from 40d, but I wasn't going to delete them until I knew for sure. --Flaede 10:08, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

wooden armor =

just curious -- how does it rate?

Some woods are better then others depending on density. Overall though, worse then metal, but better then leather and clothing. IT 000 --97.116.30.29 21:46, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

New armor layering rules

I added the new rules for layering armor. It is kind of complicated and I only typed it up so it will need to be presented in a more user friendly format at some point but it is past 2 am here so I am going to bed now. Also, we need to confirm that these rules hold for fortress mode. --PencilinHand 06:20, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand something--in the example, you say you can get 2x socks, 2x high boots. But if high boots have size 25 permit 15, how do you get the second pair on? Wouldn't the third rule be violated? – unsigned comment by 74.104.157.229

I suspect he's accepting the fact that a dwarf has two feet - so he'd get one sock and one high boot on one foot, and one sock and one high boot on the other. But that's just my interpretation - I don't try and optimize my fortress-mode armoring any better than "okay, high boots protect more than low boots, so I'll make those instead". --DeMatt 07:41, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Bugs

I just thought I'd point out the bar number bug is probably due to the fact that a steel bar is now 150 steel, much like cloth and thread. The smelting reactions require 150 units as input, but the forge reactions appear to be asking for number of bars instead of amount of metal. Input for a breastplate should then be 450 steel instead of 3. --Dapanman 22:00, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I tested this by editing the raws; if you multiply all the material size tokens by 150 you get the correct results (breastplates take 3 bars, chain shirts/greaves take 2, etc). So a breastplate should have material size 1350. (And if you don't have enough, it will again misrepresent it as "needs 450 bars" but oh well.) You have to gen a new world though. 96.224.166.17 02:27, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm curious, would that workaround of increasing the MATERIAL_SIZE tokens adversely affect other things, like the weight (and therefore damage) of hammers, or the surface area (and therefore ability to spread out force from attacks) or armor, etc. ?

Note that for optimal loadout in Fortress mode, be sure to select 'replace clothing' rather than 'over clothing' -- I tried to add breastplate, mail shirt and leather cloak to someone already wearing a shirt, and they'd just spin in 'Pickup Equipment' trying to overload themselves, swapping the mail shirt and breastplate. If you don't mind specifying every piece of garb in their uniform, it's easier if they start naked and you build up from there.

Toga

i dont see these on the table, yet i can create them in the '[j]obs' menu, in the leatherworks, and in the clothier's shop in both cloth and silk. surely it should be on there?--DJ Devil 15:23, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

i also cant make robes or coats. did anyone check the accuracy of this page before it was put on here..?--DJ Devil 15:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Dunno why you can't make robes or coats - for me, my leatherworks has robes as the third choice, coats at fifth, and yes togas at sixth. Cloth has 'em in the same order, and the same for silk. Not in a position to comment on their protective capabilities, me, but they definitely exist. --DeMatt 16:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

one possible reason could be that i'm still on 0.31.03, but i cant see that mattering too much - surely they didnt take any items out of that particular release which were in 40d, and then put it back in on 0.31.04? that'd be a bit bizarre.. but i cannot make robes or coats anywhere (i.e. not on the 'jobs' menu, or in the leatherworks, or in the clothier's). the list goes as such;

• leather armour (only in the leatherworks)
• dress
• shirt
• tunic
• toga
• vest
• cloak
• leggings (only in the leatherworks)
• trousers
• cap
• helm (only in the leatherworks)
• hood
• glove
• mitten
• sock (only in the clothier's (both materials))
• high boot (only in the leatherworks)
• shoe

very strange..--DJ Devil 17:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The clothing objects you're able to make depend on your civilization - if you look, they're all in the raws. --Quietust 18:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

sorry, i dont quite understand. by 'civilisation', do you mean the race? i.e. goblin/human/dwarf? or do you mean specifically the settlement my town was created from? and in my raws it has robes and coats in the 'item_armor' file, along with togas, and the other stuff i CAN make.--DJ Devil 18:15, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

He does mean "specifically the settlement", although the organization is not settlement-specific. Now that I look more closely, my leatherworks is missing "shirt" and "vest", as is my clothier's shop. So yes, it varies depending on the civilization. You can get an idea of what your chosen civ has access to during the Embark phase. Just go to add a new item, and look at the Bodywear category. --DeMatt 19:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I will edit the table to add togas and add a disclaimer about availability being based on civilization. --PencilinHand 16:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Metal raws concerning armor

What raws are related to how good a metal is as an armor material? Richards 21:23, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Article quality

<quote> Exceptional Quality Articles have ALL of the following characteristics:

Is properly categorized Has a decent amount of information (is "complete" for the purposes of new players looking for information </quote> Source: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered#ixzz0vc6YZ2ES

This article is mostly useless for a new play, badly formated for the information it does present, and utterly fails to give a wide range of information. how can this be "exceptional?"

152.91.9.144 05:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Leather vs Chain vs Plate

Am I missing something, or is listing the distinction in the table between these types of armor an outdated concept? As far as I know, the game doesn't currently use these terms to categorize armor, and some of them don't even make sense anymore, like metal caps being categorized as "leather". Surely the "Armor Level" column covers the concept comprehensively without causing confusion? --Soronhen 16:53, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

It's useful to note down what material can be used to make it for vanilla dwarves, but otherwise armor 'levels' aren't used anymore 2010 version, as far as I can tell. They just pick up the most expensive stuff that's unowned and unclaimed that fits. Not sure how to clean it up well, though. AutomataKittay 07:54, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Human-sized armor

Is there any issue with dwarves wearing human-made and human-sized armor pieces, e.g., "large cap", "large breastplate"? (If dwarves can wear them, why can't they make them?) Elf-sized armor? And would humans be interested in elf-made armor pieces? It seems an obvious issue to ask about, but I haven't seen any answers... -- Maunder 05:21, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Any armor/clothing that is labeled as "large" or "small" cannot be equipped; thus, gear worn by Humans, Trolls, and Kobolds is useful only for melting or for trading. Goblins and Elves are the same size as Dwarves, so your dwarves can wear them just fine. --Quietust 21:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Adamantine dress and robe

I verified that adamantine dresses and robes will protect everything except hands, feet, and heads. (Including toes, fingers, necks, and noses.) I believe that this makes adamantine robes the mose efficient use of the metal, granting near-immunity to piercing and slashing attacks. Decius 23:57, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

However, it seems that other materials might be better vs. blunt weapons. It seems that blunt attacks will do damage "through the pig tail fiber cloak" instead of an adamantine dress or shirt. Has anyone tested nonmetals for protection from blunt? Decius 00:28, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Arena mode results: Troll fur, pig tail, toad leather, and steel all provide roughly the same protection vs silver whips. Blows would regularly chip bone through the armor, damage organs, and kills were from putting the skull through the brain. A mixture of goblins and dwarves was used, 1v1, competent lasher and no other skills. Fortress mode confirms the adamantine robe hypothesis: Ten pages of fortress mode combat logs of a lasher and axegoblin beating on an unconscious swordsdwarf wearing adamantine robe, gauntlets, helm and high boots. The lasher inflicted massive organ damage, the axegoblin inflicted nothing. Somehow the dwarf managed to survive long enough to be carried to the hospital, and appears to be breathing now. Surprisingly, only the lower body and upper body were targeted during the curbstomp. Decius 01:47, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Whips and Scourges are lightsabers, due to their ridiculously high speeds and low contact area. Because of this, it is unwise that you do any tests with them. Instead you should use other weapons for more accurate data. IT 000 --97.116.30.29 21:50, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Changes in 0.31.17?

I've just had a strike to a goblin toe deflected by his copper low boot. The article claims that it is impossible due to a bug. Recheck of armor coverage rules is in order.--Another 16:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

You must have updated to the latest version. 31.17 made toes and fingers covered by boots and gauntlets respectively.--Furlion 17:24, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Modding Gloves

I'm working on a mod to be able to produce armor in adventure mode -- but I've hit a snag. Gloves of all sorts are in "left" and "right" pairs. I can't figure out the raws to stop producing "cheetah leather glove" as opposed to "cheetah leather right glove". Anyone happen to know this? --Aescula 02:31, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Growing attached

One of my dwarves just grew attached his the left mitten. This means that armor probably can also be named like a weapon. I'll do mre research. --Blur 08:51, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

quality of armor?

I was wondering, how does the crafted quality of armor affect its performance in combat? --Mark 20:28, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Clothes classified as foreign based on your civilization

I was preparing my military uniform, when it said high boots were foreign. They weren't foreign in my other save which is the same version. I have v.31.18. What's going on? --Joejr50 21:53, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Some dwarf civs can make high boots, some can only make low boots. You got a low-boot one. 220.253.80.140 10:03, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't a new symbol be added to the wiki table? I am looking at a possibly related issue in version 0.31.25 where my robes are listed as foreign, which does not agree with the wiki table. <- Sorry, didn't see the note previous to the clothing table.

Size & Permit

These are confusing... e.g., the helmet + 2 caps example. Why is this allowed? The sizes, added together, are 50. This is not LESS than the helmets size + permit. Wouldn't this violate the 2nd rule?

Also, isn't the first rule identical to the last rule? (If an item is not a layer:cover item, the last rule applies, if it is a layer:cover item, both the first & the last rule apply, but will always evaluate the same, as written.) - Morik 2011-03-28

The examples were quite confusing, and poorly written. I discussed the topic on the DF forums, and have posted a new section explaining the equipment process.

However, the information you are referring to may still hold some useful information, so I am leaving it intact. Someone more experienced may want to clean it up. --RadGH 15:35, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Every time that I have assigned dwarves to wear caps with helms, they do not wear caps, no matter what material (or any material) the caps are made of. Even if I tell them to remove all civilian clothing and wear exact matches, they will not wear caps with helms. Anyone else experiencing this? ----Stromko 05:55, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Equipping Clothing

I added a verify link in hopes that someone can confirm the equipping logic for the following line:

"If two items share the same permit value, the highest size item will be equipped first." --RadGH 15:12, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

In the Arena when I equip armor in the order of Breastplate, Mail x4 The breastplate drops and leaves me with 4 Mail armors on.

When I tried Mail x2 , Breastplate, Mail x2 The breastplate also drops

When I tried Mail x4, Breastplate A mail armor came off

It appears that the logic, when looking to equip armor, forces the largest size item off

In Fortress mode when you assign armor through individual equipping (and likely uniforms composed of personal choice) it will knock off the first item equipped.

I equipped Mail x2 Breastplate Mail

after doing so I told him to equip another mail the end results were Mail Breastplate Mail x2

It also claimed that the first mail (that was pushed off) was still equipped (green check mark in the equip screen)

Therefore the end logic simply appears to remove the largest size item when equipping a new one over the permit limit in Adventure/Arena mode and in Fortress mode it simply knocks off the first item. (Dennislp3 on the forum)

Cleanup Request

Many of the examples following my new "Equipping Clothing" section are unclear, poorly written, and/or redundant information. While the information held there may still have use, it might be worth cleaning up. I will leave that to someone else, as writing the section which makes these redundant seems to put me in an awkward position. --RadGH 15:37, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, please

The explanations are unclear and the examples are conflicting. --188.61.29.254 21:30, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Quivers/Backpacks

I have experience that dwarves with full body equipment (3xmail, 1xplate, 6xcloak) who happen to pickup quiver will onlz wear 5 cloaks and then get stuck on picking up sixth cloak. Deducing from that that it has actuall size that affects permit. Is there any research on layering/size of quivers and backpacks?

Shields and Bucklers - info missing

I was looking for info on how shields and bucklers work when equipped, and whether they can be used with all weapons or just single handed ones. I couldn't find it. Perhaps someone with good knowledge of the topic can add it?