v0.31 Talk:Military

Militant Civilians

I am verily confused. Is it possible to create squads which act like civilians unless activated? I don't want them to train, but to do their normal duties, while remaining nominally a squad. AbuDhabi 18:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

From what I've seen, in some cases squads do only activate when given orders, then go back to their civilian roles when the orders are canceled. I think what you'd want to do is define no orders in the Schedule screen (or just keep them in the Inactive alert level, which has no orders by default), then give them direct move or kill orders through the Squad screen. They should activate when you give the order, then go back to their civilian duties when you cancel their orders. On the schedule screen you can also tell them to either wear their military clothes when inactive or wear civilian clothes and only equip military clothes when active. --Valdemar 18:25, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I have them set to Inactive, but all they do is Individual Weapon Drill, completely ignoring civilian work such as making stuff and building workshops. AbuDhabi 07:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

At least I think I did. This is somewhat confusing, and I need to switch booted OSes to run DF. AbuDhabi 07:07, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Military Guide

This Something Awful post has a treasure trove of information on how the military screens work. If someone could work on editing it into the page (with proper attribution at the bottom, of course), that would be excellent. 76.84.96.216 05:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Wish I could but SA has reverted to needing an account to see the forum again. If you mind posting the relevant information here I'll be glad to sift through it and add what we can. KaelGotRice 07:12, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't we credit CC with that guide? Unless you are the original author. I don't know what's considered appropriate here. --Freeze 15:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Arsenal Dwarf not appearing?

No matter what I do, I can't get the Arsenal Dwarf to show up on the nobles screen, iv'e tried everything, even turning his poulation requirements to 1. It could be a bug, but I really don't want to lose this fort, anyone have any help?24.255.86.193

I had this problem too, but the position just now opened up for me. The only thing I can think of that might have caused it would be I drafted another dwarf to my military, for a total of 5 soldiers. -Soronhen 06:35, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

OK turns out they pick up equipment without an arsenal dwarf, boy do I feel dumb now24.255.86.193

Keep in mind that although arsenal dwarves will not appear until certain criteria is met (number of soldiers? population? dunno), until they arrive you do not need them. The page's information has been updated to reflect this. --Retro 04:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Conglomerating + Full Page Overhaul

Station and routes don't need an individual page each; they're just stubs. Added them here, going to redirect the old pages here as well. --Retro 23:45, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

More conglomerating - reading over the military guide page it seems like the latter could easily be moved into the main military page, with a bit of formatting. I'm going to start this shortly (though I won't touch the guide itself yet); if anyone has other thoughts this is probably a good spot to discuss. No harm reverting if it comes to that anyhow. --Retro 01:41, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

DONE! There is still some stuff to do, but I've made note of what needs to be expanded using hidden notes. Notably we need more info in teaching. Hopefully the quick guide has served its purpose now. --Retro 05:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Added the beginnings of an FAQ; will be going in and adding screenshots of various military menus later tonight. It'll help as a point of reference. --Retro 17:29, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Under 'Forming Squads'

"No dwarves can be assigned under your militia commander; he is a squad of his own."

Does this mean that no additional dwarves can be assigned to his squad? If so I am confused. I have a squad formed, with nine dwarves, led by my commander in slot number one....--BloodyThorn 09:48, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm also confused - My 1st squad (containing militia commander and 2 dwarves under him) seems to work just fine. (Well, fine-ish. They have trouble training, shooting goats or feeding themselves, but I think thats just my knowledge of the new military system...) --Mrchinchin25 12:07, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the validity of that statement myself, since I can assign dwarves to him, though it might not be working. I think this might have to be changed to "Assigning dwarves under your militia commander will not work, though it might be a bug" if that was his intent, since the military system seems like it allows you to assign dwarves to him. The reason I'm saying this is because if you can't assign dwarves under him the military screen shouldn't allow you to do so, whereas if it's bugged it would allow it.(Note, my knowledge of the military system isn't great either, as my dwarves have gotten stuck trying to train a lot) --Ramperkash 16:57, 5 April 2010 (UTC+2)

I found that when editing his squad I could only replace the commander and not add additional dwarves, but if nobody else is noticing that, I'll just take it back out --Retro 16:04, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

This appears to be incorrect. Doctorzuber 19:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

It might just be an isolated bug. --Ramperkash 15:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC+2)

Everybody inside

To replicate the familiar behavior from 40d of ordering all your dwarves inside you first must define a burrow using w,a,enter. Use the tools to select your entire fortress except for your main entrance and any Template:L you may have in store for potential invaders. As your fortress grows you will need to periodically update this burrow definition.

Next, go to the alerts menu with m,a. You already have one alert mode declared of active/training. Set this as the active alert status. When you want all dwarves to stay inside return again to this menu m,a and move over to the right to activate your burrow. With this active (green A) all your dwarves will be restricted to staying inside your fortress.

Squads with orders are exempt from burrow restrictions. Simply order a squad to move or kill and they will do so without any need to set up anything fancy.

I'm slightly afraid of the main wiki page right this second, too many topics to try to muck through all of that just this second. I'm leaving this here for anybody who wants an easy tip to replicate familiar 40d behavior. If so desired you're welcome to copy this information into the main wiki page and edit it as necessary. I do however ask that you leave this here unchanged for the time being since I intend to be adding to it as I figure out some more easy methods of surviving in the new military. Doctorzuber 19:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Not planning on changing/moving this or anything like that, just pointing out that this material is basically already included in the main page. But this could be handy for anyone looking for a stepping stone to figuring burrows out. --Retro 20:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I was half thinking I might put together a survival guide of sorts for the new highly impenetrable system that is the military now. But with how quickly the wiki is shaping up that idea is quickly becoming irrelevant. Perhaps this text might be used better by merging it into an appropriate page somewhere, possibly with some revision. Doctorzuber 19:18, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Information Overload

Given the enormous amount of new options with this new system I think it may be a good idea to consider breaking this down into more manangeable pieces so it's not quite so overwhelming. I'm not saying any changes right this second, but once we get a slightly better handle on all the different options that are available in the new system (despite it's awkwardness and buggyness) I think we're going to have a rather enormous bloated looking page here if we don't start sorting this out. Squads for example, which currently redirects here could very easily have an entire page to itself simply to fully explain all of the options available in the squads menu itself. Doctorzuber 19:52, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

It is indeed quite a packed page, but at the same time, squads are the military. Aside from teaching and expanding the FAQ (which could use its own page later, I might do that tonight) I doubt much more will be added. It's basically Section 1: Understanding how to make your military/squads, 2: How scheduling and alerts work aka how to make your squads do things, and 3: What they can do. It's not really possible to segregate squads from the military because they're the same thing. You'd end up with a stub page saying like "A squad is a group of soldiers. Click <<military page link>> for more info." Moving the FAQ and making training into its own training/teaching page is really all that could be done. --Retro 20:29, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Even so, I think this is an idea that should at least be considered. My plan here is to separate this out into squads, military and probably schedule as well since each of those topics is a fairly meaty amount of subject material in their own right. These would naturally have to reference back to each other, but I think with a little bit of work we can come up with a much cleaner wiki from the effort. I've taken the liberty to write up the beginnings of a squads page which I have stashed on the Talk:Squads page for the time being. Doctorzuber 21:14, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Forgive me for failing to understand, but it doesn't get more complicated than squads = the military. You can't separate them purely because they have different names by saying 'even so.' I can understand making equipment/uniforms (when the section is expanded on) and the FAQ into new pages, or even some of the scheduling/alert info (though a lot would have to stay), but you can't remove squads because then there is no military. Squads are the military. Your military does not exist without squads. I can't make this any clearer. Yes, this page has a lot of info, but all of it is essential to making, preparing, and using your squads. IMO wait for a larger consensus; you can't move the 'how to make your squad' info without rendering the article useless. The rest still isn't large enough to have its own page yet. I'm going to be working on cleaning this up a bit probably later tonight at which point some of it (but not 'squads') will probably be ready to own its own page. Right now, though, nothing is strong enough to stand on its own. --Retro 21:50, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I am moving nothing, I created and stashed in the talk:squads area for the time being. use that information as you wish. It's just an idea. Doctorzuber 22:32, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Having gone over the material you added (and reformatted it a bit to fit in better), I now agree with you - I was unaware that there was more than one command that could be given in a squads menu and figured the kill command wasn't enough to justify a page. Thanks for showing me the light there, and sorry if I sounded aggressive - I was kind of confused. IMO this is how the page should be divided: The formation of squads and equipment should stay, as should the notes about passive and active control. The active defense stuff should be moved into the Squads page as-is and replaced with a shorter, less-specific blurb; ditto the passive stuff on alerts/scheduling. When we have stuff on instruction and demonstrations it should be given a page too. Then the FAQ can get a page of its own, and we can leave the bugs. --Retro 00:49, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Wait wtf the last hour of my reformatting just disappeared. How in the hell? I had the page reserved! --Retro 00:51, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Noted your changes and managed to find a copy of my large reformatting job. Going to incorporate your changes into that. The page should make a lot more sense now. --Retro 00:53, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for calming down and taking a serious look at my suggestion. Doctorzuber 01:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Since there's a good chance you're actively editing as I type this I'll avoid touching the main page right this second. Here is another bug just came to my attention. Doctorzuber 01:14, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

• Accessing Pri/Assignments m, e, U, P when no squads are formed causes a crash.

I was, thanks! We now have a squads page and a scheduling page (still working on redirecting the latter). Now we just need to remove some of the detail from this page and add links (I'll be getting on that shortly). Oh, and I'll add this bug to here and the Squads page. --Retro 02:25, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Believe we're done for a while. Going to add another page with a very, very slow step-by-step walkthrough of each individual military/squad screen (with pictures!) later. But not today. --Retro 03:02, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I've been quietly watching your edits. I must say, I like the direction this is going. I think it's much improved. Doctorzuber 03:17, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Marksdwarf/Hunter bug

I'm not sure whether I'm doing anything wrong and whether to post this here or not, but I've had a lot of trouble working with my Marksdwarf/Militia Commander/Hunter I'm embarking with. I've changed him to just being a Militia Captain but came up with kind of the same problems (Didn't think it would work, but tried it anyway).

Firstly, when I do manage to get my dwarf hunting (which I never could achieve after him trying to train once) he tends to stop doing the job once he runs out of bolts, despite there being more bolts in storage, he defaults to "No job" and sits around my meeting area. I could only 'fix' this by going into the squads menu, giving him a move order, and cancelling it again, which would result in him fetching more bolts and starting to hunt again.

Secondly, after making him some leather armour, including a leather cloak I forgot isn't in my uniform, he ran back and forth to pick it up, drop it, attempt to go train, change his mind and repeat. This wasn't solved by simply adding the cloak to his uniform, and was 'fixed' by forbidding the cloak in the end. In my next fort I soon discovered that this is not unique to cloaks, and not even to items not included in my uniforms, as he started dropping his crossbow to go train.

Lastly, I just can't get him to hunt right again, I managed it once but it failed after trying to get him to train, and couldn't manage to get a dwarf to hunt in newer forts.

Are these known bugs perhaps, or am I doing something wrong? PS Not used to using a wiki, so let me know if I should be doing something differently--Ramperkash 13:51, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

All three of these are known bugs and a huge pain, but that's the first time I've seen a workaround for the running out of bolts bugs - thanks for the tip; I'll add it to the FAQ. And you're using the wiki just fine! --Retro 17:34, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, you know whether it's the hunter job bugging or the marksdwarf? Or just the combination? --Ramperkash 17:37, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Probably it applies to 'ranged attacking' in general. Question noted/added here. --Retro 17:42, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I think (not completley sure yet) that the problem is that ammunition, once it's been assigned, never gets re-assigned, even if it's removed from the hunter / marksdwarf's list. Look in the ammo menu - if there is a specific pile of bolts assigned they seem to (sometimes, at least) get used, but if it's generic nothing happens. So if new bolts are created they may get used, but if they aren't, or you attempt to reallocate them then nothing happens. Oops, forgot to sign. Riedquat 20:13, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Expedition Leader can not be a squad leader

I've noticed that the Expedition Leader is not available to serve in the militia. I saw this because I was testing a few things using new forts with the seven dwarves and when I tried to form a squad only six were listed. I named my leader to easily spot him in the crowd and confirmed that it was the expedition leader that was missing from the list. I cannot confirm if this holds true later when promoted into a Mayor. Doctorzuber 19:25, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

This may be what I had seen that caused all the confusion in Forming Squads higher up on this page - I had assigned my expedition leader to be the militia commander via the nobles screen, and I couldn't seem to pull any other dwarves into his squad. That'd explain some things if that was it. --Retro 21:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I have to adjust what I said earlier. Apparently he can serve in the militia, just not as the leader of any squad. Doctorzuber 01:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Ah, that then properly explains the problem Retro had, I assume it's a bug that the Expedition Leader can be a militia commander. --Ramperkash 18:11, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if it's a bug or if it's intended. but I did make a note of it on the page which will hopefully prevent any further confusion on the matter. Doctorzuber 18:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Creatures category?

Why is this, the interface, and the FAQ in the Creature category?--Tarran 02:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Good catch; looks like the new military template has an improper link or something similar. I'll go fix that. --Retro 02:22, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

More pages to come, more work to be done

I looked through the 40d stuff and it looks like when Equipment gets moved out of the Squads page we should add stuff on specifics like weapons/armor there and notes on encumbrance and perhaps quality too. Also linked up the Soldier page to the Military template, which I think should be used for Heroes + the Champion info and the effectiveness of different soldier types (ie. swordsdwarf, marksdwarf, etc). Just a heads-up that that work still needs to be done eventually. I'll do what I can when I'm done my next batch of exams. --Retro 16:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Upcoming Bug Fixes

• Copying and pasting an empty order onto a non-empty order causes a crash.
• Going to the military-schedule-grid screen and selecting your inactive alert group causes a crash.
• Accessing 'Pri/Assignments' (m, e, U, P) when no squads are formed causes a crash.

These three are marked as fixed for 0.31.03. Once 0.31.03 is released and these are verified I'll be sure to update the relevant pages. Doctorzuber 22:01, 12 April 2010 (UTC)