Editing 40d Talk:Soil

==category '''Map tiles'''?==
Is it worth having a [[map tile]]s category to relate all the individual (non construction) features of a map, such [[soil]], [[sand]], [[floor]]s, [[tree]]s, [[stair]]s, [[ramp]]s, [[sky]], [[rock|unseen rock]], etc.? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

==="No seeds" vs silty loam===
I have a map with silty loam, but when I build a farm plot on this soil it says I have no seeds to plant there... Is it the soil type or the lack of seeds? It doesn't make sense, because wild plants and trees can grow on that soil type. I'm looking into it.[[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 06:36, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:I'd have said lack of seeds it will only show the crops that you have seeds for. However if your talking outdoor farms then some [[crops]] will only grow in certain biomes. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:50, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::So silty loam is an acceptable soil type to have outdoor farming? I get the message "no seeds available for this location".[[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 12:32, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:::I'm assuming you haven't modded anything and are playing as Dwarves. Dwarves cannot start out with any above-ground crops or seeds, so you indeed won't have any seeds to plant for any above-ground farm plots without first foraging or buying some. This isn't related to the type of soil you place it on; if it lets you build a farm plot, then you can plant the appropriate crops there as long as they fit the biome. Silty loam underground would be fine for planting plump helmets, or above ground fine for planting rope reed. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 12:14, 2 December 2007 (EST)
::The message "no seeds available for this location" means that nothing can grow at this combination of biome, light/dark status (or is it inside/outside?) and season. In other cases it lists all crops, that can be farmed, even if you don't have seeds.
:::This is untrue. I've personally embarked to an area with plenty of wild plants, and it still said "No seeds available". After gathering some plants, however, and obtaining seeds, this message no longer displayed. [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 13:54, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:24, 9 January 2008 (EST)

== Sandy Loam ==

All right, the list in the article is "possibly incomplete".

The question is, can '''Sandy Loam''' be [[farm]]ed without being [[irrigation|irrigated]]?

Maybe, even more importantly than the possibly incomplete list of soils which ''can'' be farmed without irrigation, there needs to be a list of soils which ''cannot'' be farmed by irrigation.

Of course, I would have chosen to do this by having an article for each type of soil saying simply:

'''Sandy loam''' is a type of [[soil]].

It may (not?) be [[farm]]ed without being [[irrigation|irrigated]].

(other properties: is it in layers? what icon does it use? etc)

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:28, 8 January 2008 (EST)

:''Anything'' can be farmed with irrigation. Irrigation creates the mud that is then farmed, not the floor under it. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:21, 8 January 2008 (EST)
:you do not need any irrigation to farm on any soil. it can ''ALL'' be farmed without irrigation [[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 21:59, 8 January 2008 (EST)

::The article already says '''loam''' (''found near rivers'') cannot be farmed without irrigation. What needs clarifying is that ''' (''modifier'') loam ''' ''also'' cannot be farmed without being irrigated. Which I ''guess'' to be the case but I don't source-dive so I won't present it as a fact. Maybe I was doing something wrong bcs I'm a {{tl|newbie}} at this game.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:54, 9 February 2008 (EST)
:::loam '''CAN''' be farmed without irrigation, i even just made a new world and fortress to see, they farmed on it fine. likewise, '''(''modifier'') loam''' ''also'' '''CAN''' be farmed on. '''>>ALL<<''' soils can be farmed without irrigation, as said repeatedly before. the only thing that would stop it is being in a BIOME which doesnt support the plant, which is not a property of the soil. -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 17:38, 9 February 2008 (EST)

==Collapsing==
Are sandy soils more likely to collapse?
Is [[white sand]] the soil, the same as what is used to make glass? If so I guess I'm on a good map, I've got [[bituminous coal]], trees, and sandy soil from one map edge to the other.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:54, 9 February 2008 (EST)
:Soils are basically all the same, sandy or otherwise.  They won't collapse any more than rock will.  I believe the ''(color) sand'' soils (and only those soils) are used for glass, which includes white sand. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:26, 15 February 2009 (EST)
::If you're talking about caveins, right now cavein physics are just a placeholder. As long as a structure is conncected to the ground by some means, you're fine. You could hold up a nation over an ocean by a catwalk made out of soap. If you mean items made from the sand, there's no difference. Sand colors just make the environment prettirt to look at, and are probably logically derived from whatevr stone they eroded from.

==Peat==
Can it be farmed without irrigation? Peat is not mentioned anywhere on the wiki. [[User:Robje|Robje]] 15:30, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:is peat a soil? yes. therefore can it be farmed without irrigation? yes. it does need to be added to the soil list -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 03:20, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

::It is disappointing though - they don't let you use peat as a fuel, nor as a fertilizer, nor does it even come pre-fertilized when farmed.  That all ought to be fixed. [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 07:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

:::There is no need in DF for "fuel" in that sense, just as wood doesn't burn, just as (unprocessed) coal doesn't burn - or if it does, there's nothing that uses it.  "[[Fuel]]" is something that burns MUCH hotter than peat ever could, or even the hottest hardwood fire.  [[Fuel]] is for metal working, not warming the hearth, which is about all peat can do. Where would you burn peat - in a dining room?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:05, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

::::Well, see [http://slc2.uproc.lib.mi.us/CFDOCS/digit/daltview.cfm?RecordNBr=296], [http://www.icevirtuallibrary.com/content/article/10.1680/imotp.1839.24830;jsessionid=hzc4jnnvprel.z-telford-01], [http://books.google.com/books?id=DzQNJXD2FV4C&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=peat+smelting],[http://books.google.com/books?id=LisKAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=peat+smelting], [http://books.google.com/books?id=4ewKE8MZAZIC&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq="peat-fueled].  Note the last which says that peat contains energy equivalent to lignite or brown coal.  I didn't manage quickly to find anything about peat fuel in Bronze Age applications, but at least from the 13th century to the modern day, peat has been a fair competitor to other fossil fuels for smelting.  I know it's just a game, but it's just a shame to be walled in by preconceptions. [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 07:51, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::That is interesting - however, the only preconception you unburdened me of was that peat cannot be processed into coke (and thanks!).  But when you say "for smelting", it's not the raw peat, but ''processed'' peat that they're talking about. Each of those articles discusses peat that has been processed into charcoal, and more than one acknowledges that raw peat, dug and dried, is no better than burning coal - which is not [[fuel]] in this game either.  Maybe as an alternative to wood in furnaces to produce charcoal, sure - but not as "fuel", not as is.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:44, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

== Aluminum ==

I just found some Aluminum in Sandy Clay Loam, so I'm adding it to the list of minerals that can be found in soil.

I have a screen shot if needed. --[[User:Hkidnc|Hkidnc]] 20:48, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:I just embarked on a map with hematite in the middle of a bunch of sandy clay, so I added that to the list. Perhaps minerals are just much more rare in soil? [[User:AtomicPaperclip|AtomicPaperclip]] 22:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen copper bieng extruded into the soil. This is from a rock portion of a layer to a soil portion rather than completely in the soil. It's probably more common on coastlines since the soil generally goes a few layers deeper and the coastline itself (except for sandy beaches) consists of a thick band of rock. So its possible for metals to go into soil in this way.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 23:08, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

:The information about what minerals spawn in soil is based off of raw game data. If you find anything else then either 
# something else caused it to spawn in by soil that you overlooked or 
# you are seeing some weird bug
:If you are sure that you aren't looking at a something along the lines of vein sticking out of a nearby stone layer, please take a screenshot and put it in the bug reports section of the forum. Not here. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:27, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
::   After thinking about it for a bit, I did notice a couple rocks bordering the soil and I think it might have been spawned from the rocks, not from the soil. [[User:AtomicPaperclip|AtomicPaperclip]] 23:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

== ores in soil ==

 The only minerals that can be found native to soil are [[gold nuggets|gold]], [[cassiterite]], and [[platinum nuggets|platinum]].<br />  However, in unusual cases, it's always possible that a vein from a nearby stone layer<br /> could extend into the edge of a soil layer.
Why delete this? I'm not seeing the problem with the statement.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:02, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
:Mainly because the aforementioned minerals ''never'' occur in soil - they only occur in "alluvial" layers, which don't seem to actually exist as of 40d. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:09, 1 October 2009 (UTC)`
::I thought there was some discussion on that - that some "alluvial" aspects defaulted to "soil" - not sure which. Haven't seen enough soil to say one way or the other.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:49, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
:::I'm a bit unclear on this. In the 40d matgloss files, gold, cassiterite, platinum and all types of jade are listed as available in an "alluvial" environment. But there is no [ALLUVIAL] tag to be found in the stone_layer file (assuming that's where I should be looking). What's more, while gold, tin and platinum can be found elsewhere, jade is ONLY listed as alluvial. Does an alluvial layer exist, and if not, is the unavailability of jade atill an unresolved issue?[[User:Nemokara|Nemokara]] 07:15, 10 October 2009 (UTC)