Editing 40d Talk:Civilization

Note: it seems as if removing any one of these completely (just deleting their entry from the entity_ raw) will cause infinite map rejects; the world generation seems to require (at least?) one of each category. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 17:50, 8 February 2008 (EST)


I am using small worlds (33x33) for experimenting and the dwarven civ often doesn't have any "leaders" thus no kings - how would a game play out on such a world? Obviously you dont get a liaison, but what about nobles/king? Is there a way to determine if a king is present from the world map alone? Or how "big" a dwarven civ is or smth like that? Could the world even evolve while you play and "produce" a king? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:05, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:No, yes (or, at least, how many settlements, those of the selected civ show up in blue), no. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 11:25, 24 November 2008 (EST)

So, I've noticed several instances of Evil Dwarf Kingdoms, has anyone else?--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 02:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)
:When a settlement of another race is captured, it doesn't change the settlement type on the map even though it does note the race change. This can produce 'Dark Dwarven Fortresses' or even 'Forest Retreats'. The conquering civilization must be able to survive in the terrain type being captured, so you won't see elves leaving the forests or humans heading into mountain ranges. However, since forests can be converted into grasslands, humans seem to enjoy conquering elves and getting them to become pikemasters, wear chainmail, and assume leadership of their towns.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 02:36, 12 November 2008 (EST)
::Humans actually do have [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED], so arguably it's intended to be possible for them to have mountain halls. I have not seen this, though (note that any world where dwarves tend to get conquered in worldgen will tend to get rejected, so we'll generally only be seeing worlds where it doesn't happen for whatever reason)
:::Humans could only move into mountain halls that aren't in the mountains. I've never seen this happen, and I'm not sure it's possible - it seems to be that entities can only found sites at their most preferred location, otherwise we'd have at least some towns in forests. Humans can likely settle any forest retreat they conquer though, and elves can likely conquer and settle any town in a region tile with a river or lake. Dwarves can conquer both sites, except for towns in ocean, lake, wetland or desert biomes - the last two seem hypothetical. [[User:Ryalseth|Ryalseth]] 04:57, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I've got contact with two different human civilizations.  I've also noticed two goblin ambush parties that were led by a human (with lots of bone accessories like rings and bracelets).  Has Toady made it so more civilizations can raid you?  What this game really needs as part of the war arc is a decent diplomacy interface so you can make peace with various civs and get them to send trade caravans (or add a trade arc where you can send your own!). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:27, 24 November 2008 (EST)
:Children goblins kidnap will join goblin forces for ambushes and sieges when they grow up. Since they are bigger and tougher then goblins, they will likely end-up being squad leaders. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 24 November 2008 (EST)
::That doesn't explain why I have contact with a second human civilization - unless said humans still retain their civilization membership and thus I count as having contacted it?  Weird... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:42, 24 November 2008 (EST)

==unknown civilizations==
I just looked at the entry for one of my hammerdwarf champions. She's apparently the enemy of three civilizations, one of which is the local goblin civ. and the other two, the "Nightmares of Crystal" and the "Doctrines of Guarding", I've never heard of before. Any idea who these guys are and why they don't show up on my civilizations menu?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 03:20, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:It seems likely that you only get civs in your menu that that have actually made an appearance in your local area. So they exist somewhere in the world (legends mode might tell you, depending on how you've set it) but they've not attacked you or otherwise arrived in your fortress.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 06:30, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::So my hammerdwarf, having heard of these civilizations, just decided on her own "I hate those guys."?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 17:10, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::Not per se. It seems that civs communicate who they like and dislike to other civs somehow, and becoming an enemy of one can provoke its friends to become your enemy. For example, I attacked a goblin civ in adventurer mode, and a study of my post-mortem chronicles in legends mode showed that virtually every goblin civ in the world became my enemy at that same time. Not sure about the precise mechanics, though.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:59, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::The Fortress is at war with Eurasia. The Fortress has always been at war with Eurasia. Anyone saying otherwise is DoublePlusUnGood -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:03, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::::Looking at my whole military, and comparing their kill records, it seems only the ones with long lists of goblin kills are enemies of any of them, but about half of those are enemies of all three. does this have any game effect? If I were to somehow make peace with one of these civs, would these dwarfs get bad thoughts on seeing them in my fort?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 18:43, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::::From my experiences in adventurer mode, they would psychotically chase after them and murder them all, assuming they remained hostile. It seems, however, that if it says X is an enemy of Y, it's less X hating Y and more Y hating X. So if you made peace with them, your soldiers would lose their "enemy of X" entries. This is all conjecture on my part from observation though, so it's really a question that wants posing to Toady.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:51, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:To add my own Adventure experience to the list: I would say that one of the three is the actual Civilization, while all other concurrent enemy declarations is actually a site. It seemed to me that if you attack a goblin in a site, you'll become the enemy of the site. If you kill a goblin, and/or attack a leader, you'll be the enemy of that entire civilization. Note that this was based on one uber-Adventurer, so I probably got something wrong there. In particular support of this is that you've only got one Civ on your {{k|c}}iv screen, but have those extra entries, because they're actually sites. Against it, is that that particular dwarf could have independently run across those two other Civs prior to migrating. But that seems more unlikely to me. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:09, 17 December 2008 (EST)

== Offerings to and exports from hostile nations ==

On a whim I checked what I'd imported from the local goblins and kobolds, and found these amusing tidbits:

<blockquote>
Chrinkis, "Chrinkis", Kobold

<br />Exports to Fomireola [my fortress]: Petty Annoyance
<br />Offerings from Fomireola: Death
<br />
<br />Ustöspsong, "The Incidental Scourge", Goblin

<br />Exports to Fomireola: Terror
<br />Offerings from Fomireola: Vengeance
</blockquote>

I'm curious... are the exports and offerings the same from all kobold and goblin civs, or does it vary somehow? You can check these stats by going to the View Civilizations menu, selecting a civ, and pressing tab.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 06:41, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I've never seen anything other than those relations for goblins and kobolds in my fortresses, so I think it's probably semi-hardcoded. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:10, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I've seen the same remarks from Goblin and Kobold civs on multiple occasion. Does anything special show up for hostile elves or humans? --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:47, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::Good question. Time to annoy some <s>hippies</s> Elves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 11:24, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::My current fortress started as enemies with the Elves, for some reason - they ambushed me in my second spring. Currently they export Terror to me and receive Vengeance. For completeness, the local kobolds export petty annoyance to me and receive death. [[User:MooUK|MooUK]] 06:51, 22 February 2009 (EST)
:Same. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 20:53, 24 February 2009 (EST)

== Civ screen ==

In my latest fort, I noticed that when I view the Civ screen and hover over the Humans, the blue/green "P" next to the Elves changes to a red/yellow "W", and when I hover over the Elves the same thing happens to the Humans. Presumably, this means they are at war with each other, though they are both at peace with my civilization. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:28, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't the civilization screen be written into the article, including this information Quietust has pointed out (I've seen the same thing)? 
Also, I am apparently "at peace" with the goblins in a new fortress I started recently, but the exports/imports are still as described in the section above. Any ideas as to what this means? [[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] 22:54, 13 November 2009 (UTC)