Talk:Trading

Elves

I'm working on rewriting this page to take into account all of the changes to diplomacy and the civilizations screen since it was last updated. There's a lot of work to do.

One of the biggest changes was how elven ethics changed to reject IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL items. I updated it with everything I was reasonably sure about, but some things I'm only partially sure about and some things are just completely untested. I intend to check these myself, but if anyone wants to do the work in the meantime, I wouldn't mind.

These items I haven't tested and I'm completely unsure about:

• Milk and cheese. These don't have IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL but they are obviously animal products
  • Tested cheese, didn't have any milk in an elf-safe container but that shouldn't be hard to arrange Desistance (talk) 16:12, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
  • Milk is okay too, huh Desistance (talk) 16:59, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
• Extracts - Likewise. Both plant and animal extracts would need to be tested separately
• Venom - Also likewise, although this will be hard to test
• Gem windows and large gems made of crystal or clear glass
  • Gem windows are buildings, not discrete objects, duh. Desistance (talk) 17:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
  • I tested large gems made of horn and they got bounced. I need to test large clear glass gems but I think it does check mats on large gems. Desistance (talk) 17:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
  • Large clear and crystal glass gems are indeed unacceptable Desistance (talk) 09:53, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
• Remains (can these even be hauled to the depot? I forget)
  • they can't Desistance (talk) 15:43, 13 January 2023 (UTC))
• Codices and traction benches. These items can involve parchment sheets or wool ropes in their creation. Due to a bug, they can lose the material definition from these components as part of assembling a quire into a codex or a table, rope, and mechanism into a traction bench. Note that a codex made with a wooden binding or a traction bench made with a wooden table would not be acceptable in any case.
  • Both of the parts of a traction bench that can be non-elf-safe are still present on the final product, so this isn't accurate for them. Still need to test with books Desistance (talk) 02:03, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Instruments are just a giant question mark
• Scrolls made with scroll rollers made from wood or clear or crystal glass, or codices bound with hair or woolen thread.

There are a few things I was sure enough about to put/keep in the article itself, but I do want to double-check:

• Soap made from oil. The bug report is still open but the soap material template seems to be IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL regardless of the source lipid, unless I'm misreading it.
  • Whatever it is, plant soap is okay and tallow soap is not. Desistance (talk) 17:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
• Bee stuff. No IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL but I haven't tried to trade them in particular
  • Wax is okay. Desistance (talk) 05:00, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
• Blood. IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL and would be very hard to test, mainly on there because I'm pretty sure about it and it's funny
• The glass stuff.
  • The raw glass/cut glass bug is still there. Desistance (talk) 17:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
• Eggs. IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL but I haven't tested it
  • Eggs get bounced Desistance (talk) 01:14, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
• Is charcoal actually offensive? I've never really tried to sell my precious, precious fuel
  • Yes, as is ash lol Desistance (talk) 16:59, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Stuff that might be questionable but I've tested myself:

• Ash glaze bug is still there.

Ideally a Template:Mod section with a full rundown of what makes an item offensive to elves would be also helpful, but it's a bit beyond my depth. I assume items with IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL are not okay, and any item tagged as grown is always okay even if it would otherwise be unacceptable, but I don't know how the tree taboo works, or how grown items are flagged. This would be cool to have but I don't know enough about the internal workings to write it. Desistance (talk) 04:20, 10 January 2023 (UTC)