40d Talk:Challenges

Colorful

This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --G1real 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Sparta

"You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour."
why? --Savok

because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili

from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok

Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --AlexFili 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

"However, this challenge build is based on 300" No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto

The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. Juckto 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --Lowlandlord 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

No mining

Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a lot of wood! --Mechturk 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Some people already are :p --Turgid Bolk 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining or cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --Navian 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)

I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --RomeoFalling 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)

Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --Navian 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)

Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the rules, I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. – unsigned comment by RomeoFalling

Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--Maximus 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)

Assassination

I tried "Assassination" the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--Smoking Gnu 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)

Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --TheUbie 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)

Mwa ha ha ha!--Jackrabbit 18:38, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Humanlike?

It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:

(A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby.

(B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).

(C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.

It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).

(D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).

Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.

--Squirrelloid 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?

His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --Edward 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Insane Renegade (just a thought)

Well I was thinking something along these lines,

They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,

Description: Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.

P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight! – unsigned comment by LrZeph

How is this different from Outcast, aside from the RP? --Savok 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind – unsigned comment by LrZeph

Dystopian society

Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least "re-educate" any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at Template:Wiki. Thoughts? --Mikaka 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

That sounds like a good challenge. --Savok 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Underwater Building

I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --Anfini 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.

I recommend either

1. Don't build it in the ocean.
2. Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.
3. Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --Savok 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out the entire ocean with a bit of skepticism. Is this really possible? --Anfini 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the "entire" ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --Savok 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an "underwater city" per se, but it's born of the same concept. --Eddie 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

Check out User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea, then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --Squirrelloid 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)

Dwarf Factory

--Bilkinson 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT) Looking to develop this callenge concept:

Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output.

Variants:
Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles.
Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort.
High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills.
Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota.
People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers.

Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported.
Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.

How's it sound?

Luxurious Tomb

Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.

Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.

BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.

BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.

Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:

^^
^^
^^
^^
^^
^^
..
That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:
VV
VV
VV
VV
VV
VV
>^

They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..

Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, V is a ramp; ^ is not.

I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and SMASH--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.

Oh, and just a Z-level view:

|   / 
|  /
| /
|/
|\
| \
|  \
|   \

Or:

|   /
|  /
| /
|/___
|   /
|  /
| /
|/___

Etc.. ~ Midna 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Agoraphobia

Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, (and with good reason and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the "relative saftey" of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--Bilkinson 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

<insert material> Fort....wait, what?

Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? Alkyon 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. HeWhoIsPale 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --Bilkinson 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --Squirrelloid 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)

So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --Alkyon 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)

Well, my goal was to build a free-standing structure in 15 z-levels of water, so yes, if there is a convenient cliff it works, but that limits you to cliffs which start 1 z-level below water. As all my really deep water areas aren't even close to being accessible in that way, its not even an option. --Squirrelloid 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)

To me, the solution that comes to mind is to place a weapon rack on a narrow causeway and get recruits to wrestle until one punts another into the abyss. The lucky winner gets to build the up staircase. Getting materials below is easy, you can just build something and deconstruct it, among other more elaborate means. --Navian 17:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)

That only works if its only 2 z-levels down, because otherwise the dwarf falls into deeper water and drowns... and as 2 z-levels is boring... --Squirrelloid 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)

Genesis

Kill all but two of your starting dwarves off (one male and one female). Seal them in your fortress (no trading). Repopulate the earth. Measure of success is based on number of children before the fortress dies. Thoughts? --Squirrelloid 05:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)

How reliably can you get them to mate?--Maximus 16:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Tried this out - 3 years in and not even lovers yet. Ick. So, here's the problem: you really want two dwarves who won't start as friends with many other people (although each other is ok), and who can handle stress and aren't quick to anger. Because of course your first hurdle is going to be surviving the unhappiness generated by killing off everyone else. (You may just want to build some coffins early just in case). Unfortunately, the embark screen view mode won't let you see who they're friends with before embarking, so if you want to assign just two of them skills you're making guesses based solely on their personality traits as two which dwarves will be compatible and likely to survive the initial culling. After that you then need to reduce your job queue to almost nothing and basically lock them in the same room together so they spend their time talking - because you've already chosen otherwise self-reliant and anti-social dwarves.

Some evidence on the Relationships talk page suggests giving some social skills to your dwarves may increase the rate at which they progress to friends/lovers.

My first attempt was a Carpenter 5/Cook 5 and a Mason 5/Grower 5... I might have to revise that to Mason 5/Grower 3/Something social 2 and Carpenter 4/Cook 4/something social 2 - but carpenter and mason are going to be important for generating happy thoughts.

Apparently setting the .init file to a max of 2 dwarves doesn't stop immigrants from coming - which is annoying because I really don't want to keep killing them off, and they keep stealing my moods. (Yes, i put a stone stockpile outside so the immigrants can build their own deathtrap over the lava vent). I do recommend playing on an island so you only have to deal with not going outside for the dwarf caravan each year. And the liaison will happily join your migrants on the death trap if you make it a meeting area.

--Squirrelloid 10:18, 23 November 2008 (EST)

It's all a matter of compatibility. Dwarves actually don't start out friends, they just make them almost instantly at the start (and can make grudges here, too. I had one who had a very low sense of adventure while everyone else had high, and five of the seven had grudges with her.) To become lovers and get married requires a very, very high compatibility--whatever that means. It seems that some dwarves never upgrade from lovers to married, either, perhaps due to being not compatible enough, but being faced with a lack of programming to handle breakups. (I'll leave that one to the playwrights.) Getting this challenge to work is probably more than half the challenge! --Navian 11:29, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Do social skills make dwarves more likely to make friends, or does being friendly make dwarves more likely to gain social skills? Instead of focusing on social skills, you might need to pick dwarves with a lot of friendly traits (or even compatible traits, like Navian suggests). You can check their personalities before setting out -- if you don't see compatible traits, scrap it and start building another party.

For happiness, build several native gold (i.e., masonry) statues and put them in their bedrooms -- that will dwarf (ahem) the bonus you will get from the bed itself being high-quality. You can potentially skip carpentry altogether.

For them to actually form a relationship, you might need to give them idle time, during which they will socialize.

To keep other dwarves away, you could try putting a moat around the entire perimeter of the map (better still, a magma moat). This worked with the 2D version, but with finite quantities of fluid in the 3D version, it might not work anymore. But if you do want to try, put a wall as close to the edge of the map as it allows you, and flood everything outside it. Have the sacrificial five (and all immigrants) work on that.

Supposedly you won't get moods at all in a fortress with less than 20 dwarves. You also won't get moods if you haven't produced enough goods or revealed enough tiles through mining (see strange mood).--Maximus 12:30, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Noblesse requis

Build your fortress to please the sick, twisted, evil nobles needs. Build a execution chamber for your rowdy dwarves and build a torture chamber for your dungeon master, using your imagination! Use this to punish pathetic dwarves who dare rebel. Build palaces for your nobles and pamper them in every way. Pour most of your resources into a beautiful place for nobles to live whilst letting your dwarves sleep in tiny, pathetic rooms. The only exception is your mayor, who rises from the rank of the disgusting peons. He must live in squalor as well, preferably next to noble rooms to so the nobles can taunt him. score yourself according to how happy your nobles are, and your worth. Evil. And fun! can I add this to the main page? --Jackrabbit 03:04, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Sure – it's a wiki, after all. You can edit the pages yourself!

Also, is that really what Noblesse/noblis oblige means? --Savok 10:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Nope, just sounds good. I was hoping nobody would look it up. Maybe I'll change the name. Also, I'm new to wikis in general so I don't really know how everything works, desipte making this profile about a year ago. Thanks!--Jackrabbit 18:26, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Okay, changed it to Noble demand. Thanks!--Jackrabbit 18:30, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Magma/Lava Waterfall

Would creating a sustainable magmafall, or one that can be triggered as part of a defense system, be considered a challenge? Or is it more of a Stupid Dwarf Trick? I'm just curious because one has to take into account building the thing, making sure it won't set your dwarves on fire, and where to put the excess magma/lava since you can't really just pump it back into the magma pipe without some sort of massive and elaborate pump system. (Oh wow, I feel stupid. I created a new subject and forgot to sign it for at least two days.) --Alkyon 20:26, 10 January 2009 (EST)

I'm inclined to declare it a SDT, due to the overly dangerous side effects. But then... I'd also call half the challenges SDTs too. I think that if the side effects are more dangerous than the intended effect, it's no longer a challenge, but something some random (insane) dwarf felt needed to be done. To put it in perspective, there's few cases where a 20-dwarf squad can't handle an entire siege, with or without fortifications and traps. Give them those, and they can handle all the siegers rushing and arriving at the same time. Even if you never have any mistakes during the construction of the magma-defenses (and that's a rare thing) then you could easily lose more than 20 in the first siege alone from dwarves trying to gather dropped goods. It's also almost useless against any other defenses (thieves & ambushes) since you'll have little, if any forewarning that you need to clear the area and throw the switch.

On the other side of the fence, if you're particularly interested in making this, you should do the little things, like making a near-exact count of how much lava you'll need to let flow, to both keep all tiles where it will settle to less than 2/7 (since then it would never evaporate, the best cleaning method) and how to direct the flow so that it covers the path, but doesn't flow to other areas you didn't intend. --Edward 15:38, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Well, it doesn't have to be part of a defense system, one could just have massive magma waterfalls lining their entrance. Though I have to say from experience that the hardest part is drainage. Creating a massive magma cistern is one thing, it just takes some pumps and construction, but getting the stuff to not backup on the way to the disposal chasm and therefore not flood your fortress is a bit more complex than it first seems.--Alkyon 11:13, 12 January 2009 (EST)

Which is why it's great building your fort into the the ledge a few levels over a Magma Pipe ;) --Edward 21:01, 12 January 2009 (EST)

Hmm, that would be one way to do it, too bad I can't search for maps with that specific of a terrain set. Anyways, there has to be a way to spill off at least some of the magma as the magma pipes fill slowly but constantly from the bottom. Also, I learned from my failed experiment that Coke roads + magma spillover = road of fire. Unusable except for turning your fortress into Mordor, which is awesome in it's own way. --Alkyon 21:29, 12 January 2009 (EST)