v0.31 Talk:Immigration

Population Limit

"Immigrant waves will not exceed the maximum number of dwarves you have specified in d_init.txt, but instead will match up exactly.Verify (or, of course, stay below)"

I had my pop set to 7. The following migrant waves were 2, 8, and 18. I'm not sure why. Richards 22:56, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Same here... my pop cap settings seem to have no effect. Schm0 00:44, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

With default population cap of 200, I received a wave of migrants pushing me to 208, and then later received another wave of migrants (from 210, after children born) to 215. Population cap appears to be nonfunctional. RSOG 11:49, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Cephalo said: "It has been reported that the first caravan has to leave safely in order to have the cap set itself. I have found this to be true. " --TomiTapio 01:02, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Does the population cap also affect important dwarves as dungeon master and other nobles? --Blur 20:20, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

I have the same problem. I attended "Hermit" challenge, when i left only 2 dwarves from starter 7. I turned also the pop.cap to 2, so population doesn't grow. I also DON'T trade with any caravan. But these imigrants just blow up the challenge. Even without trading they keep coming every season (even with pop.capped at 2) about 4-7 dwarves per wave. I am forced to put them into DAS to get rid of them. But only get ghosts, for which i must build memorials to get rid of spirits. And here it is: a bunch of memorials and never ending imigrants and ghosts. Also suffer drop in FPS. Problem is - migrants don't stop to come even after 5 years. Can't manage to build much memorials to all of them... --Akirasip 23:48, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, at least ghosts don't tend to make massive lag, but migrants are main problem... --Akirasip 23:05, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

The first two waves are hardcoded, and you must have >10 dwarves (I think I'll put the first one in keep the other one with a verify) But overall the population limit exceeds slightly, nor does it effect the baby limit. --IT 000 10:37, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

With a population limit of 30 I've just had another bunch of migrants arrive pushing my population to 43. For a while I was getting "no migrants arrived" messages so I thought I was safe. I don't really want to have to manage that many dwarves. Keeping them all fed and housed is going to be a pain. -- 81.156.53.204 11:13, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

skills

First migrant wave, 3 migrants, 1st summer. One migrant, a "stoneworker", had:

• Competent (3) Armor User
• Novice (1) Siege Operator
• Competent (3) Fighter
• Competent (3) Wrestler
• Competent (3) Dodger
• Expert (8) Engraver
• Expert (8) Mason
• Novice (1) Animal Dissector
• Adequate* (2) Tanner (* the new term for the old "no label" level 2 experience slot)

We ain't in Kansas any more!--Albedo 07:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Another (rerun via seasonal save, same season as above):

• one w/ High Master (13) Furnace Operator and Talented (6) Appraiser.
• one with Talented (6) Cheese Maker, Adequate (2) Gem Cutter and Novice Archer, Dodger, Armor User and (yes) Blowgunner.
• and a very familiar level 2 (Adequate) Dyer.

I had one with *two* Grand Master (14) medical skills show up. (anon)

GM is 1 short of Legendary. It seems at least two things are true: 1) experience can be quite high, and 2) skills are no longer grouped by "profession", nor have to make any "sense" re matching up.--Albedo 19:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

size of waves

For what it's worth, I've noticed on two separate forts that giving the first Dwarf caravan a good deal (100% profit or thereabouts) tends to produce a massive migrant wave the following spring. One fortress had 19 show, the other had ~20 (can't quite remember). These were varying in skill from the virtually-nothing to a jeweller with Grand Master Gem Cutter and Grand Master Gem Setter...

For relatively new players like me, it might be worth noting here that you can get a migrant wave in the first spring after embark that literally doubles the size of your fortress and can prove a serious headache to manage if not anticipated. --Nimblewright 09:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

And that's why there are talk pages. In 40d, it's not the trade % that matters, it's the increase in your Created Wealth - and if you had the wealth to trade, that's 100% consistent with the old paradigm. Not that things might not have changed in this version, but there are many, MANY variables in DF - which makes it that much harder to parse out. A LOT of our hard info comes from the RAW files, and from folk who can analyze the game code, but the rest comes from a combo of observation, confirmation and consensus. For now, keep an eye on Trade %, but watch Created Wealth as well. --Albedo 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Just had a new migrant wave turn up. 25 dwarfs - including several with Grand Master skill levels, and some with jack all - plus 8 animals. Have updated main page to reflect this. Has anyone else experienced such a large migration? (this is the third spring of the fort) --131.111.254.209 12:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

25 used to be the max(iirc?) migration wave (plus children). I've had over 20, but haven't seen that many total to get any sense of what's "typical".
Has anyone had OVER 25 (not including children)?--Albedo 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It seem that now immigration is a lot less random and more wealth dependant. E.g. in the old version, your first year wave was entirely random and unless you never made a single item you would get exactly 8-10 sometime before spring (or not at all). Unless you never got a first immigration in which case you'd get the first mandatory one at your first new spring, which was up to 25.

Now I ALWAYS get a first summer immigration, with sizes so far from 2-8, the one with two in a fort without any craftsmen. It's pretty clear you can reliably get immigrants as long as you have enough wealth. I'm willing to wager that a fort with X wealth by summer is guaranteed an immigration, but I'd need to test further. Greep 01:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I just got 26 (70 dwarves from 44, including at least 1 new child) on my 3rd Spring, after 2 (maybe 3?) seasons with 0 migrant. -- Cheshire

Perhaps he only evened out the first year? I guess the question to ask is, has anyone missed a summer immigration with 20k wealth? Greep 09:44, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Contrary to what is said in this wiki page, limiting the max population in the init.txt does NOT guarantee you will never get more than that number. In fact I would say 75 percent of the time it goes way over that number and in several waves after that number is reached. I believe the population cap doesn't kick in until the next year after the population cap is reached. For people trying to keep a low population I would recommend maintaining a low wealth and limit trade until after you start getting the "no migrants this season" message. Otherwise that 30 population you were shooting for can turn into 50 real quick. -- Lemunde

In previous versions, the population cap would only be respected once the Dwarven caravan arrived and departed. Even then, childbirth will completely ignore it, which is quite annoying. --Quietust 02:58, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Just got 29 few minutes ago, and its only the 2nd year of my fortress (Late Spring) -- [User:Nephelos] (20:49 GMT+1, 14 June 2010)

Okay, I started embarking with a dwarf with the appraisal skill and I assign him to be broker as soon as the map loads the first time. Sure enough two of the maps I embarked to gave me an initial wealth of 100k. This is a known bug but it is definitely what is causing the insane amount of immigrants early on. I can only suggest that if you want to keep your population small, embark with an appraiser, check the value as soon as the map loads and if your wealth is an insane value, abandon(or save scum) and choose another location. -- Lemunde

I've had 27. http://imgur.com/P32a8.png 13:32, 8 August 2010

Just had 21 migrants. Up to now I had NO wealth created, never traded and only two dwarves survived till that point. Half the fortress flooded, Ogres everywhere. Don't know what they even want here... --194.156.172.203 10:07, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

(Spoiler Alert) Could the 100k+ initial wealth be caused by starting your fortress in a location that includes a Demonic fortress? The fortress includes a masterpiece adamantine weapon, which seams like it might be in the right value range to cause 100k of extra wealth. I seem to remember seeing it in my stocks screens once or twice so it would seem that the game thinks that it is part of your fortress from the get go. -- MozeeToby 00:38, 17 September 2010

I have played for 3 years now a fortress where I refused to dig, and therefore almost everything was made of wood (so low created wealth). I did make some glass things to trade so my trade rates were normal(ish), but my migrant waves were tiny (I've had about seven waves now, never more than 5 dwarfs). So I think it might be based on created wealth. --Mr. Jim 18/7/11

labor turned on

Just a hunch, but does the game actually check if a dwarf (before that wave?) is present with higher skill and only if not turns on the labor? I can't check any more, but I think it fits and it's the only reasonable explanantion I can come up with for now. That would be nifty. --Confused 12:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I think dwarves are just assigned a history of jobs (like NPCs), and their "latest" one is the active one, even if they're far better suited at another job. I've seen lower-skill miners and woodcutters arrive with their jobs on, although I cannot confirm if jobs like those are merely exceptions from your hypothesized rule or not. Trorbes 18:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I had the same thought as Trorbes here. I think this bug/feature would easily make sense in light of how dwarves will change their professions over time in Legends mode. But the immigrant dwarves are not pulled from existing creatures right? Are they still created on the spot to be immigrants? Either way, I would argue that arriving with multiple skills but only the most recent ones enabled is a fair simulation of world gen dwarves. -Coaldiamond 13:26, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

pattern with military skills?

It seems like immigrants arrive either completely without military skills, or they have quite a few. In particular, if they have X weapon they almost always have some fighting, armor user, etc to go with it. In addition, it seems like those non-weapon military skills are always smaller or equal to the highest weapon skill. Can anyone confirm this? Greep 20:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I was noticing a different pattern - posted as such, with {verify} tag.--Albedo 18:42, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I just got a guy w/ 6 in knife, 5 in pike, and 8 in dodger, fighter, shield, and armor. I then looked over my 38 total dorfs in DT. None of my dorfs has had to fight so far, and I only gave skills to one at the start. With the exception of that one, they all followed a few patterns:

1.) A weapon-combat skill with x experience means they also get x in dodge, fight, shield and armor.

2.) A nonweapon-combat skill (I only have a couple biters -- someone check w/ wrestler, please) comes with equal experience in dodge, fight, and armor -- Not shield!

3.) If a dorf comes in with x experience in one weapon and y experience in another (Like that guy with 6 in knife and 5 in pike) they get x+y in dodge, fight, armor, and shield. That one guy had 4500 in knife, and 3500 in pike -- and 8000 in the other 4.

4.) Nonmilitary combat/postcombat skills (Ambusher, crutchwalker, siege, etc) are not related to the above.

Can someone get these data:

1.) Dorf with weapon skill and nonweapon skill (Like biter and lasher, or wrestler and axedwarf) and check to see what skills those match to? I _think_ they'll have exp from both in fighter, dodger, and armor, but only the weapon in shield.

2.) Wrestler data in general -- I think it'll follow the biter rules I'm sure of, but I don't know this.
Need data!

--Waladil 19:47, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Just got a new migrant with the following mil skills:

novice knife user

novice shield user

skilled armor user

proficient bowdwarf

novice fighter

proficient archer

skilled dodger

.. which looks to me like "archer+related skills" (armor+dodge) added on top of "melee+related skills" (shield+armor+fighter+dodge). Still odd though.. I remember seeing a few bowdwarfs coming with armor+dodge skills, but don't remember them being -less- than their bow/archer skill levels. 202.156.10.234 01:15, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

More military skill patterns

The section on military skils clearly needs some fixing. It's OK with regard to melee skills, but doesn't even mention the ranged skill combinations (ranged weapon + archer + armor + dodge (no shield)). Plus the archer patterns seem to only grant partial armor and dodge skill (something like 2/3 of the main skill?). Also, there is at least one civilian(ish) skillset which can mess with the patterns. For example, I've got an immigrant just now with the following skills:

novice swordsdwarf

novice hammerdwarf

talented marksdwarf

adequate shield user

proficient armor user

proficient fighter

competent striker

professional(?!) dodger

proficient observer

..which caused me some headscratching until I noticed he also had "accomplished ambusher" and figured out the patterns were

novice melee (sword, shield, armor, fighter, dodger, observer)

novice melee (hammer, shield, armor, fighter, dodger, observer)

competent hand-to-hand (armor, fighter, striker, dodger, observer)

accomplished hunter (ambusher, marksdwarf(2/3), dodger(2/3?))

Also, as of some recent version (.14? .16?), observer skill is included in all the military skillsets. (up to .12, it was only included in the ranged skillsets).

As far as I've seen, any combination of patterns is possible, leading to some pretty strange assortments of skills. 202.156.10.234 05:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

HA!

Oh this is funny... so I get this blacksmith immigrant, with no blacksmithing skills o.O. His only skill? Competent Liar XD Greep 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

nvm, prolly had labor skills turned off. Bum :/ Greep 03:57, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Crash bug

Encountering repeated crash bug when recieving 3rd immigrant in second spring. Tired of reloading. No idea about the cause.

Never Legendary?

So far I have seen quite a few high masters but not a single legendary. Has anyone seen a legendary immigrant yet? Greep 00:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Huh! There just arrived a legendary glassmaker! (He's also a competent record keeper.) I'm playing version .06 --Doub 13:10, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I just received a legendary gem cutter. --Falldog 21:55, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Second wave brought a legendary leatherworker today. I play quite a bit and this is definitely a rare occurrence. -=Uninvited Guest

Legendary weaponsmith. what a roll THAT was.--75.6.235.84 04:24, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Odd thingy

I think it may be worth mentioning that I just got an immigrant with some medical skills, and Adequate skill level in both Archer AND Bowman. A second one had some skill in Marksdwarf -- it seems that there are a few too many bow-skills around. --97.121.181.207 05:38, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Archer seems to be the general ranged weapon skill, just like all melee combatants learn the fighter skill. Bowman uses bows, Marksdwarf uses Crossbows ect ect--Flying Dwarves Hurt 00:31, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

No Migrants After first year

My fort is in the mid-summer of its third year and I have not gotten any migrants except in the first year where I only got 7. My Fort in not in a remote location, and in the civ screen my parent civ has no notable dwarfs. I also haven't gotten a dwarven caravan ever. Does this mean my parent civ is too small, or have they been eradicated?

I'm creating as much wealth as I can with 14 dwarves... looks like this one is going to be fun if it keeps going this way. --Flying Dwarves Hurt 14:21, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Hate to break it to ye... your civ is DEAD! Speed112 16:46, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

No... it shall live on in my 15 dwarves!! I will repopulate this fortress and make a Dwarven empire! I wonder if I can appoint a king... hmmm--Flying Dwarves Hurt 18:23, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

How appropriate.. the Fort is called Kingdomgranite, off to forge a dwarven civalization! --Flying Dwarves Hurt 18:28, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

They all died :( --Flying Dwarves Hurt 00:32, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Ouch playing my first Game and im aproaching the summer of my 3rd year and only had 5 migrants in the first summer. Since then nothing. Im guessing i am in the same boat as you. I'm allready mourning my dwarfsies. We even build an extra 20 bedrooms with chests and cabinets and decorations. and now noone will come.--- Eviltane--

Wow, I sure get a medal for noobiness. Basically, mid third year of overground fortress and no migrants have arrived, nor dwarven caravans. I have only received the visit of elves, kobolds and macaques... --- Jacques ---

I am having a similar problem, but I doubt my civ has been eradicated; On the civ screen it still says I have a general and a queen. But I get no immigrants, and the caravan from home won't leave. --HugoLuman 06:36, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

If having no notable figures for your parent civ means that it is eradicated, then I seem to have found a bug. I got two additional immigration waves besides the guaranteed first two waves. And if i'm not mistaken this isn't the first time it happened. That unless there have been some modifications about this aspect in v0.31.25. -- Gebel -- 23 November 2011

Worldgen Immigrants

Any information? Are the (virtually useless) 'proffesioned' immigrants specific to .13 or do they include .14 and beyond? Any workarounds to make them useful? Can they function as useful nobles? Shabang50 19:56, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

fixed in .31.14 202.156.10.234 23:46, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Worried Immigrants

I have a fortress that has managed to survived for 16 years. Now it's been made a capital and I have a king, I've gotten a message saying "Some Migrants have arrived, despite the danger.", which I think is the first time in a few years I've had immigrants arrive. I'm not sure what this danger is that is being referred to, but it seems that it could dissuade immigrants from coming.

The more dwarves that die in your fortress, the more dangerous it is perceived to be by migrants. At worst it can say "Some migrants have arrived, knowing that this place may be their grave", I think. It's likely that over the years your fortress has been around you've racked up enough deaths to be considered a dangerous place. Calite 18:48, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

hmm, I don't think it's just based on number of deaths. I got the message a few times once after losing ~45 out of ~55 dwarves in an early (unprepared) fort to an FB, but it went away after 2-3 migrant waves. Could be recent deaths, or maybe net deaths (i.e. deaths - births, my repopulating migrants turned out to be babymaking fiends), or maybe X # of deaths gives you a one time danger message. Or something else, I dunno. But your (presumably) large, "dangerous" fort does make it sound like the threshold calculation doesn't consider total population or casualty percentages when calculating the danger level. 202.156.10.234 23:46, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I've had zero deaths, set up a healthy fortress in a calm area, yet I got the "No one even considered making the journey to such an accursed death-trap." I think there are two possibilities: 1) There were a ton of carp in the river, but they all died in last winter's freeze. 2) I might be next to a hostile civ, but I'm not sure.--128.120.206.169 04:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Immigrant war dogs?

Just had a migrant wave arrive with a "Stray war Dog (tame)". Don't recall having had that happen before. Anyone else seen a war dog (or hunting dog) arrive with migrants? (v. .31.16) 202.156.10.234 00:09, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Negative created wealth scares away migrants

While doing some SCIENCE on migration, I found that if I modded my raws so that the fortress' created wealth was negative, then I'd get the message Migrants were too nervous to make the journey this season. Interesting. -- Khym Chanur 01:17, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

• There are many migration announcement messages that aren't listed on this (v0.31) page. I have just received the message that some migrants have arrived "despite the danger", which according to the 40d version is due to the large amount of death my fortress has encountered (from population of 175 to 5, thanks to a forgotten beast and a vile force of darkness at the same time). Can we confirm the messages that are in 2010 and include them? I thought it added to the mood of my fortress incredibly! -- Kalon 01:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Max immigrant wave

The page states the maximum number of migrants in a wave as 10 or so. Help me. I've been swarmed by a total of 110 immigrants over 6 years, and I think I've seen waves of 15 or more in that time. First of all, I'm a noob and I can't handle all of these useless morons standing around. Second of all, WHY AM I GETTING SO MANY MIGRANTS? It's not as if my fortress is even secured at all- The only reason I've survived is that for whatever reason I've never been attacked. Has anyone else had such an experience? 74.98.229.82 02:11, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

10 is the max for the first two waves which appear in the fortress's first summer and first autumn. Immigration waves after that can be larger. -- Khym Chanur 16:23, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Controlling Arrival Points

Now I've got a question I've been wondering about for a while - I used to play the "2D" version of DF for a while, and back then you could control where caravans and migrants would arrive from by building a road to the edge of the map. Is that still possible now somehow? I'm tired of them showing up in all the most random directions possible! D: --Kittenykat 18:28, 28 January 2012 (UTC)