Talk:Main Page/archive1

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Archive This is an archive of old discussions. Please do not edit this page – instead, add new comments to the current talk page.

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[edit] New Tutorials - How to list?

How and where do we list new tutorials? It's quite lost on me. :( I would sign, but I don't know how... TinyPirate

[edit] The "Bedroom Design" page is broken

When trying to load the page I get this error:

Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/virtual/site152/fst/var/www/html/dwarf/includes/Parser.php on line 2717

It's been this way for a couple days at least. The rest of the wiki works fine. unsigned comment by Phillstac3

The culprit was too much QD, which caused the page to load too slowly. The wiki gave up when it didnt load fast enough. I have the culprit for now, but I have idea for a more permanent solution. VengefulDonut 08:28, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
"Design_strategies" seems to be broken too,though with a different error:
Fatal error: Maximum function nesting level of '100' reached, aborting! in /home/virtual/site152/fst/var/www/html/dwarf/includes/parser/Preprocessor_DOM.php on line 831 Daedalusai 12:05, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
A lot of templates seem to be broken at the moment. The pages using them are displaying the code, instead of what they're supposed to. --LegacyCWAL 17:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
The latest Mediawiki update seems to have broken all of the templates using ParserFunctions. I have no idea where the problem is, I don't use that extension. VengefulDonut seems to be the man who knows best about it. I've disabled the extension for now but I can re-enable it if we know we can fix it. --Senso 18:32, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] "new version"

ShunterAlhena changed "new version" to "new (3D) version" to "3D version". I changed this to "Z-axis version", to reduce newbie confusion (thinking there's a fully-3D graphical version could be disappointing) but now I'm starting to wonder if maybe "new version" would be best after all. As far as I can tell, "new version" doesn't just mean all of the versions since the October 2007 release, but rather the latest version.
That said, that's what I'll tweak it to. --JT 19:47, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

IMO if the phrase "new version" is being used to refer to the "Z-axis version" of the game, then it isn't really clear enough. With Toady's regular updates, talking just about "new versions" is a little too ambiguous. How about the phrases "multi-level version" or "multi-floor version"? Either of those would be clearer I think. "Z-axis version" is also good for me. (This is my first suggestion/edit on a Wiki, so I hope it turns out ok!) --Saiph 07:59, 28 November 2008 (EST)
You're correct about it being ambiguous. Your suggestion is ok (and welcome to the Wiki! :-)), but I don't think the notice box is still needed. Its purpose was to keep people from just copying over old material from the archived wiki to fill gaps in this one, but that's not really a danger anymore, so I just removed it and moved the release date down to the download link. — Alya 10:40, 28 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Offline Version?

Is there an offline version of DwarfFortressWiki (ala Wikipedia)? I'm going to be doing some traveling, and would like to use this resource when I don't have internet access :) --User:Sim9, unsigned

I know that obtaining one is possible. --Savok 23:31, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
I was told that a torrent was circulating on 4chan and other places but I don't know anything else about it. --Senso 12:46, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
Go to Special:Export then go to Special:Allpages in another window/tab. Make a copy of every article's name. Paste it into the export page and click export. Now its just a matter of finding a way to parse the xml file you get.
I now have an offline copy. I can post it if anyone is interested in a copy :) --Sim9 22:57, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
Just found this: WikiTaxi. It took me a while to find a suitable program for viewing Wiki XML dumps, so I thought I'd save some others the time. By 'suitable', I mean easy to use and without requiring a lot of extras before it will work (most I found require you to set up a server with a MySQL database and apache - I already meet those requirements on my desktop, but that almost defeats the purpose of downloading the wiki in the first place). This one however is completely portable - I can have it on external storage and use it on any computer I find myself needing to. --Tyranic-Moron 13:57, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Coincidence?

I got a quote that said:
"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!"
--Savok
right after creating this account... Is this a coincidence or a command?
--Peewee 20:02, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

Coincidence. That's the end of a newbie-welcoming template that someone found funny enough to put in the Quote list, which delivers randomized quotes to the main page. --Savok 22:49, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
Both coincidence AND command. VengefulDonut 11:41, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
I, personally, think that it is hilarious.--Zchris13 16:41, 23 February 2009 (EST)

[edit] Russian Interwiki

I've made a deal with the admin of the Russian wiki, we can both link to each other. So if you know Russian, you're welcome to add links to the bottom of pages to their equivalent Russian pages. For example, on the Carp page, I have added [[ru:Карп]] - so there is now a link to its Russian counterpart in the left-side navigation bar, under the "In other languages" header. --Senso 13:37, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

Looks like the other wiki may be down/broken. I don't have a suggested action though. -- Vaevictus 13:33, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
I have made new russian wiki. URL: http://www.dfwk.ru. I do translation now. -- igoreklim 22:15, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Many Laughs

Congrats to whomever made the april's fool's day changes. Yvain 04:34, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Agreed. I didn't think of doing anything myself so kudos for going in. Nobody changes it for the whole day, I'll revert any reverts. :) --Senso 08:56, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
Well, I for one am deeply offended by it. And I cannot understand how the two of you can stand there and let this pass. The orcs have gone too far! This act of desecration will not be tolerated. It is time for the dwarves to put asside our differences and unite to smite these abominations of nature from our our world. Let no stone be unturned, let no tree be unclimbed, let no river be uncrossed as we hunt down these vile defoulers and bring them and their species to oblivion--preferrably hacking off as many apendages as possible immediately prior.--Jpwrunyan 04:15, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
WAAAAAAAAAGHHHH!! If dat iz war ya want, dat iz war ya'll have!! Oi yuz grot ga fetch ma choppa, we’ze goin’ Stuntie huntin’ --Karl 10:56, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Bring it on then! Saves me the trouble of going outside if you come here. The only thing orcs are good for is blunting axes!--Jpwrunyan 01:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Navigation on bottom

Since recently (2 or 3 days) the navigation and search box are at the very bottom of every page (opera user). Can someone please fix this? --Koltom 07:38, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

It's at the bottom of the page for me too, and I'm using Firefox. Klada 11:43, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Confirm this is happening for me as well, Firefox 2.0.0.12 ubuntu 7.04. --Nunix 14:56, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
For what it's worth, ditto, and FF 2.0.0.12 Windows XP Home Edition Version 2002 Service Pack 2. --Savok 15:07, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Hah! Sorry, meant Senso. XD Good to have another confirmation regardless. Anyway, I went ahead and emailed him. It's weird how it just cropped up all of a sudden, hopefully something easily fixed. --Nunix 02:00, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
It should be back to normal now, sorry for that. --Senso 11:54, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
No worries, looks good here. Thanks! --Nunix 17:54, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
*Koltom jumps up and rejoices*
"Koltom was pleased to have a mandate deadline met lately."? --FunnyMan 06:13, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

[edit] "American" English or Rest-Of-The-World English?

Just a minor question, while spell-checking articles, I've encountered a few discrepancies between the two, but I usually see the "rest of the world English" more. So what's the official rule here, assuming we're going for a constant? --Snoob 08:40, 7 March 2008 (EST)

Haha. You don't sound biased at all ;). I figure we can go one of two routes. We can either claim that DF is an american topic, since it's being made in america by an american and the wiki is on an american domain—or we can say DF is an international topic since people from all over are funding Toady. If it's an international topic, we might as well follow the wikipedia manual of style. Wikipedia has no preference over the variant used, but there should be consistency in each article. The first user who makes an edit which disambiguates the variety being used in the article is considered the first major contributor and all subsequent edits to that article should use the same type of english. If in doubt, we have history pages. I think the reason you see british english more often in the wiki is because we've had a few editors who in their extreme modesty decided british english is superior and changed several of the american english articles over. I've noticed this happening on a few occasions. (please dont do that). VengefulDonut 09:53, 7 March 2008 (EST)
I second sticking with the Wikipedia's Manual of Style for language. And as a note, there isn't a "Rest of the World English." In fact, the language is documented to vary much as the countries that speak it.
So, how does the Namibian English variant sound to everyone? At least then most of us are at an equal starting point!  :P --TarrVetus 11:25, 7 March 2008 (EST)
I made a pretty bad assumption there, I suppose. I was trying to not sound biased, but I suppose I accidentally let it creep in somewhere. I'll just leave the variations to you guys and stick to cleaning up actual typos then. :P --Snoob 11:37, 7 March 2008 (EST)
Hehe. I can sympathize, Snoob. I've had this debate with myself in the past, though it was from the other side. --TarrVetus 13:17, 7 March 2008 (EST)
This is a late reply, but I am an American in China. Here, English is classified either as American English or British English, and American English is widely preferred even though British English is taught to beginning students. I wouldn't say calling it "rest-of-the-world English" is very accurate. I would venture that many countries in Latin America also prefer American English, but what do it know.--Rusty Mcloon 01:16, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
Don't you mean, "but what do we know"? --Zchris13 20:09, 21 February 2009 (EST)
I know that British English is preferred where I live (Norway.) My English teacher is an American and he advocates use of British English in order to appear more "correct" in universities. *shrug*. I dunno. Rest-Of-The-World-English means to me "a mixture of anything remotely English", and would totally not be good on a Wiki, yah. Finn A 22:56, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Non-native Anglophones advanced enough in the language tend to have an accent which comes off as like or allied to whichever variant dominates local teaching, and that drifts over time. While the default question is going to be 'which of the UK or the US is closer?' (the other anglophone countries, while significant, aren't among the top half dozen military or economic powers; while India might be an exception some day, the bigger and stronger it gets the more the local acrolect shifts to Hindi), bear in mind 'closer' has changed a great deal in meaning in a fairly short time. In Germany's case, for example, people educated in the late 40s and 50s are fairly likely to have picked up Received Pronunciation (and the only major American musical exports tended to be jazz or swing, which contributed party, music, and slang vocabulary but had little influence on the local acrolect), whereas over time the increasing influence of American servicemen, tourists, musicians, writers, and icons brought the German accent and usage much closer to the newly ascendant General American, and the present usage is basically chimeric.
'Correct' is a mug's game for English, in the end, because we lack a regulatory body and the market-based ones care more about literary style than anything. And that's ultimately a good thing, because despite the fairly large pronunciation differences between RP and GenA, the spellings marking BrE from AmE are not phonetically distinct. The only one I can even think of which is is Aluminum/Aluminium, and (as pointed out below) Toady uses Aluminum, so the wiki should as well.
(Oh, and just because I feel like nitpicking: lumping both the language spoken between Outer Bosnywash and North Texas and every variant of Strine[1] into BrE is hardly cricket, is it?) Cparax 09:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Another late reply: Nah, you didn't make a bad assumption. Spelling doesn't vary nearly so much as accent does, which is all that article above talks about. There's only two written variants (BrE and AmE) and all the other minor variants (like Canadian) are just mixes of spellings from BrE and AmE.
That said, thought I prefer BrE I think DFW should be in AmE because that's the spelling used in the game. We wouldn't spell the article title Armour, right? Bitbender 15:12, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
This makes sense. I agree. Even if I may slip up every now and then. Finn A 21:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, as an American living in Japan, I think the wiki should be in Dwarven English because this is a game about Dwarves. Dwarven English is completely identical to American English except that it's vastly superior. Another difference is that Dwarves use the word "axe" at least once in any paragraph (spoken or written), for example, a Dwarf might say "May I axe you a question?". Dwarves are just funny that way, I guess. Dwarven jokes are of course better crafted that human or elven jokes, just like everything else dwarves make. As the wiki is now, some of the articles look like they were written by goblins. I mean, there is something seriously wrong when the goblin entry is twice as long as the entry for Battle Axe. --Jpwrunyan 07:07, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
It strikes me that a Dwarven author would cut the article on battle-axes down to a tiny, wriggling stub unless she or he was hit by the need to waxe poetic. I mean, they're battle-axes. What more would any real dwarf need to axe? Cparax 09:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Version updates

There's a new version out today, so the version number and release date need changing. Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea how to do this as they appear to use some kind of function instead of being typed in. Somebody with the know-how fancy making the change? --TangoThree 10:04, 24 February 2008 (EST)

Template:current/version
Template:current/lastupdate
VengefulDonut 10:15, 24 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] Quote randomization

VengefulDonut, if you want to randomize that for improved quality, you'll need to do it right: Many (most?) of the quotes in the quote archive are in an ARCHIVE: They are bad quotes never intended to be reused. Also, what do we do when we get new quotes? Do they get put in a database, not to be used till the RNG chooses? --Savok 20:11, 7 February 2008 (EST)

What would you like? VengefulDonut 20:36, 7 February 2008 (EST)
I suggest that one quote is permanant, and the other quote refresh everytime we visit the page. So far, I noticed that even if I refresh the page, the same quotes stay. --Eagle of Fire 05:49, 8 February 2008 (EST)
A new quote on the left, and a randomized archive quote on the right? As for the refesh: the template checks the time. --Jackard 06:35, 8 February 2008 (EST)
What is the tick? Every few minutes? --Eagle of Fire 08:14, 8 February 2008 (EST)
The template checks the time, but the time doesn't update because the server caches the page. It gets a new one whenever the server refreshes it; you can force this by editing the page or by clicking the preview button. Also, I could make it so that one of the quote boxes picks from the newest x quotes. VengefulDonut 10:43, 8 February 2008 (EST)
Having a newer quote on the left and an archived one on the right sounds better than a permanent quote on either. PS. Might want to remove a few of them, like the 'palisade' quote. --Jackard 11:47, 8 February 2008 (EST)
The goal of the quote archive was to archive every single quote which ever got to the main page. If you want to thin out only the best quotes, I suggest you use a separate database for that. Even then, how "good" is a quote is very open to interpretation and taste. If I had to remove all the quotes I find bad or unfunny myself, I'd probably remove 80% of the present quotes in the archive. --Eagle of Fire 18:46, 8 February 2008 (EST)
Ok. The right quotebox now chooses from the last 10 quotes instead of from among all of them. If anyone feels like they want to prune out or fiddle with quotes, go for it. I think what I've set up should be pretty straightforward, but if you have questions I'll be glad to answer them. VengefulDonut 20:11, 8 February 2008 (EST)
I added two new quotes (40, and 41), but only 40 is showing up at the moment, am I doing something wrong? --Markavian 10:10, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
You did it exactly right. The left quote box randomly chooses between all quotes. The right quote box randomly chooses between the 10 newest. It will come up eventually. VengefulDonut 10:17, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
If possible can we implement a check to insure that the left quote and the right quote are not in fact the same quote? I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal with a small quote, however when it is large, such as the 7 line one I ran into today appearing in both boxes, it makes the page seem a bit crowded and symmetrical. --Elvang 14:51, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
We could do that, but the probability of identical quotes is 1totalquotenumber, so I don't think it's really needed. --Savok
And yet it still manages to happen. like at the time of this edit. --Zeta 12:30, 19 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Requesting installation of ParserFunctions extension

It would be nice if the ParserFunctions[2] extension was installed (#if, #expr, etc). It would be useful for having templates that exclude parts of it if no values are provided. Note: I cannot find a place for requesting extensions --Aygar 13:00, 21 January 2008 (EST)

ParserFunctions has been installed. I did a quick test and it works. Let me know if you run into problems. --Senso 11:54, 22 January 2008 (EST)
ParserFunctions doesn't seem to be working at this point. -- Vaevictus 15:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

I've got requests for either having a German wiki or Namespace. I'd like to have everybody's opinion on this. If you people think that having German (and maybe other languages eventually) translations on the main wiki is going to be annoying, tell me. I can also setup a new wiki on a subdomain (de.dwarffortresswiki.net for example). How would it be best organized? Should I use LanguageTemplates? Is there a need for other additional languages? --Senso 09:31, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Since Dwarf Fortress is only available in English, if you can play the game, you can also read the wiki. I really don't think a German (or any other language) wiki version is worth the effort.--Siliziumleben 14:22, 18 January 2008 (EST)
My oppinion also. This doesn't mean we should stop those enthusiam people though. --Eagle of Fire 13:06, 17 January 2008 (EST)
There's a big difference between understanding a game interface and reading long and complex tutorials, descriptions, discussions etc. I know French people who play this game; they can understand the UI but they use the French wiki for reference. Also, if I decide to use a separate wiki/subdomain, this will be totally transparent to you. --Senso 16:40, 17 January 2008 (EST)
My first language, the one I used since I'm born, is French. Yet, I way prefer this wiki over the french one. --Eagle of Fire 10:06, 18 January 2008 (EST)
I'm French too, you know. But when I offered to host a DF wiki, I didn't do it in French because I know English is widely used. But I'm still glad that someone else started a French wiki. --Senso 22:58, 20 January 2008 (EST)
I don't see what harm could come from hosting a German, Japanese, and Russian wiki. It's not like it will interfere with the English one. Also, as a student of languages, I would love to read equivalent articles in German and Japanese. --DDouble 22:01, 17 February 2008 (EST)
I am german and while I can read english books like german ones, I have to agree that being able to use a UI and understanding the finer points in a tutorial etc. are two quite different things. I guess that if the bandwidth of the wiki is no burden on anyone, it could actually lead to an influx of new ideas and players, which is very important for a "community" game like DF. --Caiburn 20:44, 18 February 2008 (CET+1)

Hello everyone!
I'm from Austria speaking and reading English very well, why should we not translate this wiki? If we are enough fellows we could do a good job. So give us a chance ;)unsigned comment by Geri


Like EoF implied, a translated wiki is simply not nearly as up to date as the main one. If it was, we would have to rely on an active community of those fluent in English and the language of the translated wiki to keep the wikis coordinated. For this reason, I do not believe that we can successfully create a DFwiki in a different language with the resources that we have at the moment. --Savok 11:21, 11 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Version of MediaWiki?

Sorry if this is completely the wrong place, but does anybody know which version of MediaWiki these pages uses? Maybe that information could be included in the page About DwarfFortressWiki? --Gauteamus 17:00, 17 December 2007 (EST)

I think I found out. This page: Special:Version says the version is 1.10.1, which should mean that limited #for-loops are supported. I will delete these comments soonishly, but will let them stay for a while incase someone has comments --Gauteamus 17:28, 17 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] Combat Logs?

What about a section where people could post cool combat logs from adventurer mode. This would different from the "Stories" section, which is more prose. (This is 'cause I'd like to post the log of a battle I had with a particularly clumsy Giant, who slammed into a wall allowing me to stab him in the back of the head for the eventual win. Its no dragon-slaying tale, but I still think its good.) --Wahnsinniger 11:59, 2 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] Humor? / Link to quote archive?

Any thoughts about possibly linking Main Page/Quote Archive page somewhere on the main page? Its an orphan at the moment and is pretty funny and relevant. Vanan 15:19, 13 November 2007 (EST)

I'd like to be able to see that happen. New people coming here might get overwhelmed if we don't amuse them with some good humor here and there.--AlBorland 13:42, 20 November 2007 (EST)

I second that. This second is adorned with hanging rings of Goshenite and menaces with spikes of Goshenite. - Laugurinn 22:57, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

Where does one stick new funny quotes? Namely, this:
""Thikut Atheludib, Marksdwarf cancels shooting at Archery Range: Interrupted by Groundhog pup" - What brave soldiers I have" Juckto 18:45, 10 December 2007 (EST)

That's not exactly funny, but Main_Page/Quote. --GreyMario 00:43, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Just for the record, does anybody mind if I put a link to the Main Page/Quote Archive page on the front page? Shabang50 12:58, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

I say go for it. --Zeta 22:27, 12 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Demystify messages?

Probably against the spirit of 'losing is fun', but how about a page that explains smoe of the more cryptic messages, such as; 'job item misplaced' and 'job item lost or destroyed'? Runspotrun 16:43, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Also, is there a suggestions pages? This probably isn't the best page to add ideas... Runspotrun 16:44, 8 November 2007 (EST)

[edit] Importing old entries

What's the stance on importing entries from the old wiki for stuff like general item stats? Most of them are still correct (or nearly so) and it would be nice not to have to switch between this and the old wiki any more. I can add a disclaimer to them stating I pulled them from the archives if that's appropriate. --Xazak 15:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

IMO (and I'm not admin or anything) it should be ok but only if you are 100% sure EVERYTHING is correct, and have verified it personally. I've edited at least one article someone copy-pasted with no changes that had old info in it so far and it makes me sad. --BurnedToast 15:38, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
Yes, I second this. Please be diligent if you are going to import old information. Even if you can't do it yourself, at least categorize it as needing verification so someone with the free time can. --EighenIndemnis 15:37, 6 November 2007 (EST)
You could use Template:Verify to indicate that something needs confirmation in the new version. --Senso 15:47, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I have noticed an increase of pages in which only an old Wiki page is copied/pasted along with a warning that it was copied and thus may not be accurate. Is it just me or that's exactly what we didn't want to happen, and one of the reasons we started fresh with the new Wiki to begin with? --Eagle of Fire 01:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

[edit] Basic Format

I think the Farming page is a good format for most of the key pages, perhaps the structure from the archive should be followed. --Infinity 05:56, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Agreed, I've tried to copy this style on several pages, e.g. Gear Assembly. --Markavian 23:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I would like to add a request for a 'build tree' of sorts. It would, for example, make figuring out how to get iron bars a whole lot less frustrating. --Dogcow 17:18, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Hello, I've added a whole page on the various metals you can make now. This is my first time editing a wiki so feel free to make corrections for me if you want, just leave me a message on the page letting me know where I went wrong. Also, since some Alloys involve smelting 3 bars of metal now, I have included a new template called Alloy3 to display these. I'm not sure on the colors though so have at it where I'm off :) --Chthon 11:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
Would like to second the build-tree suggestion. New player here, and I use the wiki to reference items I require but do not know how to build. I may be a bit slow, but it took me half a year to figure out I needed a Weaponsmith to make new Iron Picks. The wiki page only mentions the Metalsmith's Forge, and it never occurred to me that Weaponsmiths use the same workshop, since a pick is physically both wood and iron. Having a description that says exactly what is needed to create an item would be very useful for new players. --tuxdelux 15:15, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
A pick is actually all iron, at the moment, no wood to it. I expect that Toady will eventually get to redoing that whole system, but I doubt that he'll touch it until then. --Savok 11:21, 11 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Change guide?

Was just thinking, perhaps one of the links (or sections) on the main page should be a guide to the major changes between last version and this one. Yes, a TON of stuff has changed, but a lot also has not, and a lot of the core concepts are the same... so I would imagine many of us who have played the previous version(s) would love a section where we can see a list of new basics we have to learn, along with links to those things' individual pages... like, z-axis (obviously), mechanisms, fluid dynamics, nobles, elevation/slope, farming... you get the idea. --Cliffjeff 11:43, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Yea, I'm thinking not. Isn't the whole point of DF finding things out on your own? "Losing is Fun" and all that. Ok, so if we summarized all the changes, and someone (like me) didn't want to know we could not just not look at it right? What can I say? I'M WEAK! If we summarize the changes I will CONSUME it! (I'm only here because I still have another 6 hours of work before I can go home and try it!)
Meanwhile, I'm lazy and stubborn and would love a consolidated list of only new things I need to know =p and I'm also trapped at work and unable to mess around in the game :( but if the whole point was finding out things on your own, why would we have a wiki? ;p --Cliffjeff 15:58, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
I agree, I think the change guide is a good idea, and it would also help us direct our attention at the articles that are likely to need the most work. --Peristarkawan 16:01, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
It ought not to be very hard to generate a basic change guide based on the official change notes, and then update it as the details are discovered. --Bobson 16:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
A change guide 'page' might be useful pointing out major differences but I think the style of the wiki should be aimed at new users who know nothing of previous versions. I think we should not compare old/vs new as a rule, but if necessary we should include comparisons at the bottom of a page as apposed to the main article. That is how I am writing my edits. --Markavian 23:26, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
The thing is, the whole idea of the wiki kind of goes against 'finding things out on your own'. If you want to be completely surprised by a game, don't read a wiki specifically intended to reveal all the details about it... sure, we do put warnings on the most spoily stuff, but at the end of the day this is a Wiki intended to document everything about Dwarf Fortress, so just about every page is going to be a spoiler to some degree. --Aquillion 03:12, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
To add my take on this subject... I think that this is a gigantic game, in some ways more complex then any of the Elder Scrolls game. I mean, in the ES games, you have weapons, armor and others... In this game you have an exceptionally large number of items of many different types and purposes... It's very difficult for newbies to fathom exactly what an item is used for. Without this Wiki, I think a lot of people would struggle with this game. AlexFili 05:59, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
Although this is a bit late, Toady does summarize version changes in a text file in the game's main folder. --Savok 11:21, 11 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Possible bugs

Hi, this is my first time writing to any wiki.

I am writing about possible bugs. I have seen, that some sections of this wiki contain information about bugs. I think I have found one, but don't where to put it, or whether it is already here. I am also sorry, if this isn't the right place. If so, please delete this entry.

Anyway, if your furniture stockpile isn't big enough, and you try to put furniture into a specific room,it is sometimes possible, that that furniture won't be put. Instead, it will be blinking forever. You can change it functioning (make bedroom, throne room...) but to be honest, I don't know if this item is actually there, or not.

[edit] alternate site????

there appears to be a very similar site at http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Immigration (not just that adress) what is the diffrence???

That's the address which was originally used for the site, before Senso registered a separate domain for it (dwarffortresswiki.net). Both domains are valid and point to the same content, so they're interchangeable. --Janus 20:59, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Shutting down the archive

In about two weeks, I will shutdown the read-only archive (http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net) as I believe we've been using the current versions long enough. I'm also looking at ways to reduce the server load, disk space used and bandwidth consumed. So there. If articles were not ported to the current wiki, please do ASAP. If you have objections, please speak now. --Senso 12:33, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Regarding outright deletion: I'd prefer you didn't. Is there at least a way to preseve it in some downloadable format? The old version of the game was interesting in its intrinsic danger, and besides that, I have a succession game using that version. I think a downloadble, locally-running copy would be a good idea.--Dadamh 13:19, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
Mediawiki allows for database dumps to be made. Any chance you could do this? I am interested in this content. See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Backing_up_a_wiki - you'd just follow the procedures for an xml dump and make the resulting files available for a limited time. Random832 17:14, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] PSA

While the intention is great, the main page isn't the place to post it. It should be added to the editing/creating dialog, probably so that it appears under any previews, and above the actual editing box. --Edward 16:53, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

Gladly - just tell me how to do it without the required permissions. --GreyMaria 19:50, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
It was my intention that you would bring it up to Senso to do it. --Edward 22:35, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
Agreed, putting editing pet peeves at the top of the main page is overkill. Ask Senso to make the changes Edward suggests.--Maximus 01:34, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
Frankly, I think it's important enough, and unknown enough, that it should stay on the front page. -- RomeoFalling 20:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
If it does stay on the main page, professionalize it a bit more and remove the sigs. My vote's for taking it down anyways. I almost hit revert as a "knee-jerk response to vandalism". The main page article is not a place to air your grievances about how people edit. --Rkyeun 06:02, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
If it could be moved to the Editing/Creating page, then I wouldn't object to moving it off the main page. But I'm on several wikis, and not one of them lists the sign-off info anywhere that's easy or intuitive to discover. RomeoFalling 20:06, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
It can be, it just needs edit permissions on the host. While it looks a tad better now (thanks RF), it's still entirely out of place. --Edward 20:34, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
This is a very jarring thing to see on the main page. It is completely out of place and affects the first impression people get when they see the wiki. It just makes us look bad. Put the issue on Senso's talk page and he is likely to add it to the editing dialog, but it should be taken down first. VengefulDonut 09:34, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
I have removed the PSA under the premise that changes to the main page are wrong until proven right, rather than the other way around. We can return it after agreement has been reached regarding its presence. VengefulDonut 23:44, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
I'll mess with the code today and include such a warning directly on the Editing template. I'm also tired of people not using signatures. --Senso 15:59, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

There may be a page in the MediaWiki namespace that can be used. Mediawiki:Edittools will add text _after_ the edit box; I don't know about before. I know Wikipedia has a feature for that but I think it's an extension. Random832 08:41, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

Huh. after going through the source code I can now say there is NOT one - there's ones for all kinds of special cases (creating a page, recreating a deleted page, editing a protected page as an admin, editing a Mediawiki: page as an admin) but not one to just always show. Nevermind, then Random832 08:54, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

I don't even see a huge problem with people not signing their posts, anyway. If a person only makes one or two posts, knowing their "name" isn't important. People who intend to stick around should be clued in.--Maximus 15:39, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Lets Download Dwarf Fortress!

Well you can't, and that's the issue. Are there any plans on changing the main page's link to a mirror? Since this wiki comes in second on Google only to the official Bay 12 homepage, it'd make sense for there to be a working download for potential players. Raithah 01:05, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

I added the links for mirrors 2-4 to the downtime notice. "Mirror" 1 is B12G itself. - FunnyMan 01:15, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
Per my PM to FunnyMan, is there a mirror link available for the Mac version? These are just the Windows version. 23skidoo 21:35, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
Though for obvious reasons I am unable to vouch for it's integrity (ie. infected by virus, spyware, etc.), [3] has a mirror of the most recent version, OS X edition. Raithah 00:33, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
The download link is just the Bay12 site again, which is down, however Funnyman has just added a Mac download mirror link to the main page. 23skidoo 16:26, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] ETA?

I miss Bay 12 Games! Does anyone have any idea when we should be getting it back? I just want to know if I should stop constantly clicking my bookmark and sit back and wait for a few weeks. --Zoodle 16:23, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

I think it's safe to say that since we can't make donations to Toady while the site's down, it'll be back up pretty soon. --Fossaman 13:58, 27 October 2008 (PDT)
You can make donations: if you go to an archived version of the page, the paypal buttons still work since paypal didn't crash. According to Toady on at least two occasions, the site was supposed to be back up today (monday). But that doesn't seem to be happening. It should happen soon, though. --Penguinofhonor 22:23, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
Looks like the main site just came back up. The forums are still not back up yet, though I imagine they will be within the next few hours. --Janus 08:32, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
You'll be pleased to know that the forums are now back up as well, and seem to be functioning normally. Ryo 13:00, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
So Random### decided to say that the forums are not up. Last I checked, being able to reach the "you are banned" screen means the forums are back up. --GreyMaria 14:16, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

...huh? (way to insult me behind my back btw - if you have something to say, next time say it on my talk page) - anyway, it was a DNS problem, and the page I did see was a PHP error message, NOT a forum software "you are banned" messages. Random832 16:35, 10 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Forums?

A short time ago but after the forums crashed I got a pair of PMs claiming to be from the bay12games forum.

Are these forums up somewhere, or how would I explain those PMs? unsigned comment by Sukasa

Last I checked, the b12g forums were actually back up and linked to from the bay12games site. <_< --GreyMaria 23:47, 20 November 2008 (EST)
Nope, when I go to /forum/ I just get a mostly-empty directory view --Sukasa 09:14, 21 November 2008 (EST)

DNS problems. See instructions at http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Main_Page&oldid=34213 . Random832 11:57, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Not helpful- I've already flushed my DNS several times, used different DNS's, and tried that fix- I'm still getting the 'empty' forum folder. And according to cmd>ping, the DNS addresses are already correct.
Strange. Try going specifically to http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php. --Janus 22:21, 21 November 2008 (EST)
404, actually --Sukasa 01:03, 22 November 2008 (EST)
OK then, what IP address is it indicating when you ping the server (which you mentioned above)? The new, current IP (which I double checked) for bay12games.com is 216.97.239.212. --Janus 03:59, 22 November 2008 (EST)
That -is- the IP ._. In fact, that`s been the IP for months.
That said, manually going to http://216.97.239.212/forum/ worked, but trying to click -anything- redirects me to a 404 on bay12games.com/forum/. About the only other thing I can see is that I'm getting wwwRedirect in the GET string.
Hm, found what may be the issue. Despite having flushed/registered the DNS a week or so ago, my DNS records still have the wrong IP in for bay12games. Confusing as all get-out, since /dwarves/dev_now.html works fine for me. unsigned comment by Sukasa
The ping command should resolve DNS entries exactly the same as your browser would, so that was why I was asking (i.e. "ping bay12games.com" should resolve to 216.97.239.212). Glad you've got it nailed down as a DNS issue though. --Janus 19:25, 22 November 2008 (EST)
Uh, by the way: do you access the internet through a router? Sometimes they can muck things up, and in fact I've seen one cause problems by caching DNS entries. Fixing such a problem would vary from one router to the next, though. --Janus 19:34, 22 November 2008 (EST)
It's a Linksys Router, yes. It's definitely not the router and instead my internal cache, since the problem persists even when I bring my laptop to work or to University. --Sukasa 23:53, 22 November 2008 (EST)
Firefox also maintains its own cache, IIRC. Random832 11:13, 24 November 2008 (EST)
Nah, I use Chrome. Anyways, managed to fix it, thanks for the help --Sukasa 16:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Notice box at the top of Main Page

As we can see from the edit history, Alya states that "it was intended to ensure information from the old wiki didn't just get copied over; it isn't really needed anymore, especially that prominently." Edward replies, "Versions still update regularly, and accuracy should always be a priority."
Right under "Download Dwarf Fortress" is emblazoned the same text as the notice box except for a reminder to ensure that info is accurate for the latest version. I'm inclined to think that the sort that wouldn't do that won't be listening to the notice box any more than Rules F, V, and sometimes Y. No, especially Y.
Opinions?
--Savok,
not wanting to start revert wars at 00:44, 30 November 2008 (EST)

I think that's going to end up being true, what with the current state of the average human brain. Though I'm fresh out of suggestions, except giant red blinking text. --GreyMaria 01:13, 30 November 2008 (EST)
I have to agree with Alya. We barely have a problem with people adding inaccurate info of any kind, let alone outdated info. It gets outdated on its own, and if we're lucky, we spot it and fix it. We could toss the notice box altogether.--Maximus 02:25, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Consensus seems against me. Notice Removed. --Edward 05:21, 30 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] "Meeting Hall' page for general questions.

Wowwiki (for Warcraft and related things) has a 'Village pump' page, that functions as kind of a general question area. Is there something like that here, or could there be? I've seen references to the forums, but the links don't seem to work, usually, at least for me. (I'm on a company network, which may be why.) --Azaram 23:03, 9 December 2008 (EST)

I'd say the forums really are the best place for that stuff. It's a pity if you can't use 'em. But feel free to ask questions on any talk page on the wiki, however; there are plenty of people who watch Special:Recentchanges.--Maximus 18:00, 10 December 2008 (EST)
Since Toady fairly recently restructured the forums, some of the links to them are still broken. If you can't access the real forums, though, I can't help you.
Like he said, most questions should be asked on the talk page of the appropriate subject, and we have enough people reading the changes in the wiki that you should be answered. --Savok 11:21, 11 December 2008 (EST)
This could be a good replacement for the currently (and for a good while now) unused Current_events page, perhaps changing it's title to something more appropriate, while maintaining it's presence as a 'Main Navigation Link'. That's my two dwarfbucks on ideas for a replacement for that page anyways. --Edward 00:18, 30 December 2008 (EST)
IMO, 95% of questions are asked on the appropriate talk page and 80% of the remaining could have been. I don't think that we need a "Gameplay Questions" area, since we've got a forum for that, like Maximus stated. --Savok 10:25, 31 December 2008 (EST)

☼ ☼!!!!! I personally think it needs a sandbox page, where new, or even experienced who wnat to try a new thing, users can test stuff and see how to do things like upload images, or what the many edit buttons do.--Destor 01:23, 30 December 2008 (EST)☼ ☼

Typically, any page under your username (like Special:Mypage/blah) is an appropriate sandbox page, for use when you need to disturb the wiki for more than a minute while getting some unusual formatting to work. When your code is normal, you can just use the preview button... --Savok, a bit puzzled at 10:25, 31 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Latest Version

The latest version is 40d9. Is there a reason we're not linking to it yet? --RomeoFalling 17:55, 31 January 2009 (EST)

Cause it's a beta of a beta. AKA it's unstable and not even a real version yet, more of a subversion. If that. It's cloudware - it exists but it's not very stable. --GreyMaria 18:07, 31 January 2009 (EST)
The latest version here is 40d. VengefulDonut 20:28, 31 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Random Blank Pages

Savok notified me yesterday of a DB error appearing when editing pages. Since I fixed that, the website seems to show blank pages at random. I don't know if it's related to yesterday's problem or if it's an issue with my host. I will keep you all posted as soon as I have more information. Don't ask me about offline versions of the wiki, I do not have the bandwidth to provide ~100MB downloads for everybody (if someone else wants to host one though, go ahead.) Sorry about the troubles. Edit: I've been getting DB errors while trying to edit that page, fuck. --Senso 21:46, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Ok, the DB seems to be repaired and the space issue should be fixed. Let me know if anybody keeps getting the blank pages. If it still happens, I'll have to reload the wiki from an old backup. Ugh. --Senso 22:59, 10 March 2009 (EDT)
I once had this problem with one of the wiki I'm "administering", it was a caching issue. I just had to clear the cache folder and it was ok again. YMMV. --Karl 00:20, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
Currently, this problem is occurring for all diff pages I view. I haven't noticed it elsewhere. --Savok 01:33, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
Never mind that. It seems random now. For example, I can't look at Talk:Main Page but I can view the latest diff. --Savok 01:34, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
I've cleared the cache, same problem. It looks like a typical cache problem but I don't think it is. I'm pulling my hair out. --Senso 09:15, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
Do you own the server ? White page can be PHP dying from something (lack of space, server overloading?). You could check the logs maybe.

Mediawiki has been upgraded from 1.10 to 1.14. That seems to have fixed the problem. I hope so. Bonus: All you people asking me to upgrade, your wishes have been answered! --Senso 14:41, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

MySQL seems to be erroring out displaying pages like Talk:Tomb. The source is there, it's just dying somewhere in the rendering. Sproingie 21:31, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Ah thanks, I'll look into it. The previous wiki version used LATIN-1 and the current one UTF-8 so I was expecting such breakage. --Senso 23:16, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The Template:CreatureInfo appears to be hosed as well, though I'm not enough of a code junkie to figure out where and fix it. Appears to have happened in just last few days, with no apparent edit changes to cause it. RedKing 02:58, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I notice that a lot of the broken templates have "#ifeq:" in the shown code, but the still-working templates (such as Template:Metal) don't have "#ifeq:" in them. Maybe going and editing those statements out of those templates would help? --LegacyCWAL 05:10, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

It all boils down to the fact that the ParserFunctions extension seems to be broken so I had to disable it. As I said previously: The latest Mediawiki update seems to have broken all of the templates using ParserFunctions. I have no idea where the problem is, I don't use that extension. User:VengefulDonut seems to be the man who knows best about it. I've disabled the extension for now but I can re-enable it if we know we can fix it. --Senso 13:59, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I just meant that since the affected pages can sometimes be pretty hard to use at the moment, it might be worth considering a temporary stopgap to get them working better for the time being. The parser stuff would of course be put back in if it gets working again. Just that, well...Black bear. --LegacyCWAL 14:41, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
That's kind of hard to do and I don't have the resources or time to hack Mediawiki into ignoring all those template codes temporarily. It's either enabling ParserFunctions (which prevents the page from loading at all) or editing the pages to remove all the template code. Both suck but I really don't know what else to do right now. Nobody else seems to have that problem anywhere else, I can't find anything on Google. My guess is that our templates are too complex or have a bug at the core since, when activated, PHP throws errors about 100-levels nested functions (!) and bails out. --Senso 15:36, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Template:qd nests about that many functions. Perhaps if we destroy it then we can get parser functions back. VengefulDonut 01:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
There seem to be a lot of problems even with ParserFunctions disabled (that is, random pages still fail to load). I've blanked QD so we can find out if it's to blame for the parser function explosion, although it seems strange that it would also affect the main page. VengefulDonut 02:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Try updating from here: MediaWiki Parserfunctions Mraedis 18:27, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
I already had the latest version installed so that wasn't the issue.

All right, it seems that VengefulDonut fixed it by blanking the QD template. I have re-enabled ParserFunctions and pages using those seem to work fine now. --Senso 13:48, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

It's a shame it had to be destroyed. I'll see if I can put together an alternative in the coming month or so. No promises, though. VengefulDonut 00:58, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
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