v0.31 Talk:Ambusher

Weapons and Tactics

With regards to whether or not the crossbow is considered a weak hammer, I lava-forged 64 chambers in arena mode and pitted dwarves against each other - no skills, no armour, but of each pair of dwarves, one had a crossbow (without ammo) and the other had a warhammer of the same material. The first 25 trials were done with steel, the remaining 39 with iron. Of the steel trials, 11 hammerdwarves killed their partner, and 14 crossbowdwarves bludgeoned their opponents to death (though one died shortly after). Of the iron trials, 22 hammerers emerged victorious, while only 17 of those hirsute little crossbow-wielders could claim the same. And when I say 'emerged victorious', I mean I flooded each chamber with lava after the battle to sanitise the arena. So we have, for the hammers vs crossbows - 33 vs 31. In other words, inconclusive. It seems that, at least for the moment, beating things down with a crossbow is roughly as effective as with a warhammer. I'll be testing hammers and crossbows each vs various kinds of monsters at some point, and I'll write up my results here. --Samthere 16:25, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

• So I fought 26 untrained dwarves against wolves; half of the dwarves had steel crossbows without ammo, the other half steel warhammers. In the end, 9 dwarves using each weapon survived, and 4 perished. Two dead hammerdwarves did enough damage for their wolves to die very shortly after them, and one crossbowdwarf did the same. A while later, two further wolves died from sustained wounds, one from each weapon. Extra note - mortal wounds (that weren't happening fast) were discovered on two additional wolves, one on each side. This leaves one wolf that could survive, who killed a crossbowdwarf.

--Samthere 16:46, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Broken

Isn't hunting currently somewhat broken? I'm going to add a warning to the top and a bugs section to the bottom. Garanis 14:07, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Factual Changes

There are some things that need to happen in the military screen to make hunting work now. I haven't played with hunting enough to know what they are. Can someone write a guide section for this? Garanis 14:30, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

They need quivers as they cannot hold bolts in their hand any more. Also you need to assign them ammo from the military screen : m > f > hunters > c > bolts (or whatever) Also they don't seem to start hunting most of the time but I have noticed that assigning a hunting dog helps. Speed

i have quivers, i have bows, i have bolts. i have wildlife both above and underground, and i have acesss TO the wildlife both above and underground. i have activated bolts for hunters in the '[m]ilitary' -> '[f]?-ammunition' section. i have offered him the default 100 bolts, an inflated 200 bolts, the bare-minimum 10, and a fair-sized 20 bolts. i have offered all the different types of bolts available (metal, wood, bone, or any material (despite having only bone ones available)), i have even asked him to go pick up some unusable 'arrows' and 'blowdarts' (of which, again, i have none), and still have a hunter who's refusing to hunt. he's picked up his bow, and his quiver, but has decided to go sit in the dining hall with his feet up instead of picking up some bolts and going hunting. checking through my stocks, i have a number of stacks of 5 bolts from various different animals, including 8 stacks of 5 finely crafted vulture bone bolts for example (which is 40 total, all of the same kind, and quality, spread over 8 stacks), but none in stacks of 20 (which is currently how many i've asked him to carry). i've also assigned him a hunting dog (not a war dog), and have taken off all his other duties apart from 'hunting' - still nothing.... i used my broker/manager/leader/bookkeeper to become my 'arsenal dwarf', and.. after i had to remove my broker/manager/bookkeeper jobs ([n]obles -> [r]eplace -> 'leave vacant'), his ammunition was eventually assigned, and he went and picked up some bolts! :D 4 stacks of 5 (different animal bones and different quality, so that doesnt affect it), and then.. he went and sat in the dining hall, feet up, refusing to move.. i give up -_- --DJ Devil 04:19, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Try removing his labor, and re-assigning it again. That usually will make him remember that he doesn't have any bolts and he will go fetch some. Speed112 04:32, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

i did do, several times. i completely forgot about the 'arsenal dwarf', and in the raws it says he's in control of the ammo, so.. thinking i was onto a winner, i got my leader to become ONLY the arsenal dwarf, and my hunter was assigned some bolts. he went to pick them up fine, put them in his quiver fine, and then STILL refuses to go out hunting. i'm gonna fiddle about with the military section today, to see if i can get him to hunt via that :]--DJ Devil 12:53, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

omg, he did it..! he shot some bolts at a few wolves! i r so proud of him ^-^ i created a squad uniform for my hunters (leather armour and any bows, minus the shield), put him as the sole occupant, and after a bit of scurrying 'round, he was set. i was wondering if you had to manually assign quivers, and how to do that (there doesnt seem to be an option for it) but fortunately you dont - he went and picked a new one up after dumping his 'hunting' one (inc. bolts). then going through the [s]quads screen, i selected squad [a], [k]ill, 'wolf', and he seemed happy enough to trot off after one of 'em. he actually killed two in a hundred bolts (the idiot was shooting from halfway across the map, through trees - go figure..), and he went and bludgeoned the third with his bone crossbow. i have organised a party at talc Table, if anyone would like to attend?--DJ Devil 13:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

p.s. there should be more information on this page about the arsenal dwarf, and unless i'm being truly dense and missing something obvious (like the arsenal dwarf, for example.. lol), that hunting is completely bugged; even WITH animals at his disposal, and all the necessary items in his inventory, my hunter still wouldnt hunt.--DJ Devil

for a bit of an update; i have 4 "hunters", with exactly the same labours turned on, but only one of them willing to hunt. he's been actively hunting for a while now, and the rest still have "no job" or something of the like. i have very little reason to construct a 'why' one will hunt, and the rest wont. all four are also in a military squad i sometimes use to chase off wildlife, with varying success - some dont re-equip a quiver/arrows before giving chase, some dont re-equip a bow, some dont equip anything (and before you say 'arsenal dwarf', i've removed all his labours but the arsenal dwarf one..). could it perhaps be something to do with the dwarves not dropping their military-assigned bows and picking up their hunting-assigned bow to become hunters again, and vice-versa? i.e. not being allowed to go hunting using the bow they've been assigned for military work? perhaps bolts have something similar stopping hunting-assigned bolts being used for military work, and vice-versa. i'm gonna have a play around with it and see what i figure out, anyway.. some help would be greatly appreciated xD --DJ Devil 00:24, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

okay, so i dont fully know why my hunters wouldnt hunt, but i now have THREE of them actively hunting 'til they run out of bolts. one of them still refuses to do a single thing, but that's also true of all his other tasks.. i dumped all the bows, ammo and quivers, reclaimed them, waited 'til they were back in the stockpiles, then asked them to re-equip (turned their hunting labours back on). as they had other jobs, it took a while, but two of them went after some prey once they'd done, with a bow, bolts, and a quiver. they continued until they ran out, which i believe is a current bug. then an indestructable titan showed up, and i had to 'end task', so tried it again with just dumping and reclaiming bows and quivers, which worked just aswell :] i'm gonna presume it's something to do with the hunting/marksdwarves jobs clashing over which bows/bolts/quivers should be used, and the inability of the hunters to decipher between them (thus, not dropping a perfectly good hunting bow to pick up their military bow for military work, etc), and the quivers - if they have military bolts in them, they cant be used for hunting, and vice-versa. i think they definitely need to be dumped so the old ammo is cleaned out, before reequipping. i figured i'd bulletpoint a few tips, if it's not working for you...

• either they're a hunter, or a marksdwarf/soldier. both is buggy
• you must have a quiver per hunter to hold his bolts in.
• quivers need to be cleaned of previous bolts (via dumping of the quiver itself, or of the individual bolts held in the quiver(presumably, but dumping the quiver seems easier)). if the quiver was empty (like after your hunter had used the last of his bolts), then there are no problems.
• the arsenal dwarf must assign bolts to your hunters, specifically. i had my leader doing it along with the other 5 or so admin jobs, but have since employed a secondary bookkeeper to keep him free to "upgrade equipment manifests" and the like.
• once your hunters are out of bolts, and decide to bum about in the main hall, turn off their hunting labour, then put it back on again at some point (either immediately or after they've dumped their stuff - i dont think it makes a difference) for them to re-equip bolts (and possibly grab a new bow, too).

perhaps these (reworded) should be put on the wiki itself? i'm sure they could help other people in a similar predicament as i was :]

i found out why it was, btw; known issue 0000605 - "When relieved from a squad, dwarves do not resume civilian jobs, even when squad is deleted entirely". my first hunter was part of my military for a very short time before i assigned him to become a hunter. he started a combat drill, then i deleted the squad (cant remember the reason), and that's why he's not working as a hunter now, but the other 3 are. so apart from the arsenal dwarf delaying things, and i'm relatively sure the bolts affect things now and again (wrong material, or not the specifically assigned ones, etc), or the fact you gotta keep switching the hunting labour on and off.. i cant see too many problems with hunting in general--DJ Devil 15:50, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Old Information

Hunting seems to have changed drastically, though it might be an effect of the bugs cursing the labor for the time being. So, I suggest not claiming that the old things havn't changed. Those things that I have experienced (and can remember now) that this article might be incorrect in the article (Please confirm my experience, or the article) are as follows:

• Hunters seem to only use crossbows and bolts, they do not go at it with assigned weapons as in 40d, since weapons can only be assigned weapons if they are in a squad. The only thing you can assign your hunters is ammunition.
• Hunters will cancel hunting if they run out of bolts, and will not proceed to wrestle (or hammer, with crossbow) its prey down.
• Waterskins/flasks might not be that detrimental to hunters anymore, as dwarves in the military can be allowed alcohol in their waterskins/flasks, I'm not sure whether the same can be done for hunters, or whether they even carry waterskins/flasks. (This bullet is speculation)

--Ramperkash 18:03, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. A lot of the stuff from the 40d article should just be culled. Garanis 18:08, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

This article just generally sucks. 207.114.92.10 00:55, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Effect of Skill Levels?

Does anyone have any idea what happens as the skill gets higher? --Romeofalling 19:45, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

High skill, faster sneaking, less likely to be detected even after a few rounds of combat. At max, sneaking movement rate has no penalty, and it's possible to punch a colossus for a good couple of minutes before he notices you. Ranged ambushers probably make the most of this due to distance, esp with interference from melee squadmates.

It's still kind of broken though (as of v.16), hostiles will still close in even if they don't detect the ambusher, and may attempt to swing, but usually miss. Also, fleeing NPCs and creatures will still run directly away from you even if unable to detect you. Uzu Bash 16:42, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, imagine you're a giant hulking monster walking through the forest and suddenly an arrow flies out at you. Would you stand there dumbly, continue on your way, or go in the direction the arrow seemed to come from and try to root out the source of it? It feels like it's going against standard game mechanics, but this behavior is actually quite realistic for those more likely to fight than flee. No comment on panicked, fleeing people, though you'd imagine thieves might be so overly paranoid that a sound or split-second sighting that others might shrug off would catch their attention enough for their cowardly selves to get out of there. --Twilightdusk 00:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)