Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Copyrights

Licensing

The message at the bottom of the df wiki says that all content is available under GFDL & MIT. I wonder if that is really true.

This copyright page showed up in 2010. I don't know when the warning below the edit box appeared. So what is the status of older contributions?

The status of images uploaded here is also in question, since the file upload screen allows all kinds of licensing options. This particular screenshot is licensed as "Found the image somewhere." Basically everything in the tileset repo lacks detailed licensing information. Despite that, people claim that they are public domain and safe to use in video game development.

What are your thoughts? VengefulDonut (talk) 16:49, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

This current notice dates from 2010, but it is likely that other notices were present prior to that--copyright concerns on wiki content has been a known issue since before Wikipedia launched in 2001. Even without obvious copyright notices, contributions to a wiki can reasonably be expected to be unencumbered. But debating wiki copyrights is a rather pointless academic exercise unless and until somebody actually has a complaint. If somebody were to complain, it would be fairly straight-forward to remedy the situation by removing content as necessary to comply with law.

The variety of image-licensing options is a rather new addition--and most are quite reasonable for use on the wiki. The "Found somewhere" option is likely intended to catch (and initiate review of) questionable images, instead of forcing users to hide them under other licenses. Images which violate or appear to violate copyright are removed.

I would suggest that the bottom-of-page copyright notice be amended to state "Content is available under GFDL & MIT unless otherwise stated." to reflect images may have different licensing.--Loci (talk) 21:59, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

The thing that brought this on is that I saw the tileset repo recommended as a resource for people developing roguelikes. Is there an expectation that anything someone finds on the wiki will be legally unencumbered? Should there be? VengefulDonut (talk) 22:42, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

"The idea that typefaces (rather than fonts, which are computer software) cannot be copyrighted in the United States is black letter law. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(e). Under U.S. law, typefaces and their letter forms or glyphs are considered utilitarian objects whose public utility outweighs any private interest in protecting their creative elements."[1] So it would appear tilesets are fair game (under U.S. law) regardless of the wiki's stance on copyright.

Toward your more general questions, I would say there is a definite presumption that all the text on the wiki is available under the GFDL. Images are another matter (which is why we have a license-selector box on the upload page). If anyone is particularly concerned about their images being used, they would be well-served by ensuring that their files' licensing information is set correctly.--Loci (talk) 00:41, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

That sounds promising. So apparently a "font" can be copyrighted, but a "typeface" can't. What? Is a tileset a typeface, or is it a font? Wikipedia suggests that "typeface" is a synonym for "font family," which is another term to chase.

This provides the following definitions for the terms:

First, let's distinguish between a font and a typeface. A typeface is

the scheme of letterforms (which is really what you're probably talking

about), and the font is the computer file or program (or for that matter,

a chunk of metal) which physically embodies the typeface.

A tileset is definitely a computer file. Which I guess makes it a copyrightable font? It later goes on to say that bitmapped fonts are not copyrightable, which would make our tilesets probably fine. This is getting kind of subtle. VengefulDonut (talk) 04:04, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Your same wikipedia article has a reference to a copyright office notice which talks about "digital typefonts" also being immune to copyright, but defines them as "a bitmapped digital representation of an actual analog typeface design." This doesn't seem to be saying all bitmaps are fine.

I want to conclude that someone trying to reuse these for their own software should talk to a lawyer about it rather than hoping it works out.VengefulDonut (talk) 04:30, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

As I understand it, a "typeface" is a collection of letter symbols, while a "font" is *computer code* for generating letter symbols. The *computer code* is copyrighted (like other computer code), not the letter symbols. Tilesets are not distributed as computer code, but as an image of letter symbols, making them a "typeface". But certainly one should not rely on an off-hand comment in a talk-page discussion on DFwiki for legal analysis.--Loci (talk) 22:11, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

I also saw something like that in the wikipedia article. I'd go down another rabbit hole chasing down whether "is it computer code?" is the real legal standard and whether bitmap images can qualify as "computer code," but I think it has become pretty clear that this area is complicated enough to need an expert opinion, and neither of us is an expert :) VengefulDonut (talk) 01:14, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

I suggest that the copyright notice at the bottom of the page is changed to "Text is available under GFDL & MIT", to make it more explicit that the text is free to use but images may use different licenses. For reference, English Wikipedia uses similar copyright notice. Tanamoril (talk) 08:24, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Images and copyright infringement

There seem to be many images used on this wiki without permission from the author. For example, this image of a giant is taken from VegasMike on Deviantart, even though the he hasn't released it under a Creative Commons licence or similar. Another example, this image of an ogre with a goblin is stolen from Wildweasel339 on Deviantart.

A lesser problem with some images is missing copyright information. For example, this zombie dwarf is made by DioMahesa on Deviantart, and he does release it with Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License. However, on this wiki, he is not attributed at all, even though the license demands attribution.

I suggest that blatantly copyright infinging images are deleted. The images with missing copyright information should be fixed. Also, whenever someone wants to upload an image to this wiki, they should make sure that the image in question is released under Creative Commons license or similar and that the relevant attribution is made on this wiki. Tanamoril (talk) 09:02, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

I agree, this is not passable. I have a DeviantArt account, so I am thinking of reaching out to these creators. What do you think of the following message: "Hello, I am an editor of the Dwarf Fortress Wiki. It has come to my knowledge that another user uploaded this artwork to the DF Wiki for use in one of its articles, likely with incorrect license information. Is this something you gave permission for? Otherwise it will be removed."? I feel an apology should be fitted in there somehow, but I am not sure how. This message would be either sent as a PM with a link to the relevant artwork included, or written as a comment on that artwork's page.

I also noticed during my initial search (looking for articles containing "Art by") that many of these pictures were uploaded by user Zippy. It might be a good idea to investigate that lead further, contacting them for explanation, and looking for more pictures by what they have uploaded. If they are indeed a repeat offender, it should also be taken up with forum administration. --Voliol (talk) 21:02, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

I left a message at User_talk:Zippy, hopefully they will read this discussion and tell us what they think.

Reaching out to the artists is a great idea. However, taking a look at the files uploaded by Zippy, there are lots of images, which means there are also lots of artists to contact. In some cases, I can't find the original artist, for example File:Dragonprev.png (edit: the art is from Olivtree on DeviantArt, I didn't notice the attribution on the article). I think those images should also be deleted as a potential copyright violation.

I noticed that in many cases, the artist is attributed on the article where the image is used, but not on the file page itself. For example File:Giant_walrus.jpg. This is a minor concern compared to other issues, but I think that the attribution should be on the file page too. I think it would also be a good idea to link to the origin of the art work at the file page, even if it not required by the license, since it would make it easier for future wiki-editors to figure out where the image is from and if it has been uploaded with a permission from the artist or not.

If others agree with these proposals, I volunteer to go through images and either fix the attribution and other small mistakes or mark the file for deletion. Only administrators can actually delete files on this wiki, right? Tanamoril (talk) 08:32, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Correct. Feel free to tag anything necessary with {{delete}} and I can take care of it. —Lethosor (talk) 15:50, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

As far as I know, attributing in the file is what is important, doing it in the article is more of a nicety. Though I am very much a layman when it comes to copyrights, I believe it is a worse error to attribute an incorrect license than none at all, and that is (presumably) done in the file info with e.g. the Creative Commons license mentioned above, but not in the articles.

If there are many artists to contact, then I am willing to take that on, though I imagine it will take several days, if not longer. The messages should be mostly identical from artwork to artwork, which should cut down the time. At least that goes for artists that are easily found via attribution in the article, images where they can't should be taken note of somehow, but they will be trickier (if they exist). I will also not be able begin until tomorrow, for personal scheduling reasons, but if this gap allows for Zippy or a third (fourth?) person to speak their mind before that is only a positive. --Voliol (talk) 19:54, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm not going to start going through images until this weekend. You mentioned earlier that you would contact the artists on DeviantArt either via PM or a comment on the artwork. I think a public comment would be better, since that way the answer would be public as well. Tanamoril (talk) 06:10, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Here is a first report, covering all images from 2020-2021 shallowly, and a few in depth. I have prioritized the ones that had a credited artist, though it did not turn out as simple as every credited artist being on DeviantArt, or even being the original creator. These were also in minority, out of the ~100 images (counting file edits, but some files had been edited multiple times, meaning somewhat fewer images) there were only 10 that were attributed to a specific artist, discounting those clearly made by Zippy such as File:Creepy_crawler.png and File:Feather_tree.png. In the cases where I could find the original artist, and the work was published on DeviantArt, I posted a comment saying approximately

"Hello, I am an editor of the Dwarf Fortress Wiki. It has come to my knowledge that another user uploaded this artwork to the DF Wiki for use in one of its articles, likely with incorrect license information (flagging it as being under Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 3.0). Is this something you gave permission for? Otherwise it will be removed. Said user has seemingly done this for many artworks, though we (another user and I, neither being wiki admins) are still investigating to see the full extent." (the exact comments vary, as e.g. the claimed license did. they can be seen in the DA links below, being public). In any case, these are the ones with credited artists uploaded during 2020-2021:

• File:Injured_dwarf.jpg, used in injury: credits ADHadh, the original artwork is this on DeviantArt.
• File:Infected_ghoul.jpg, used in infected ghoul: credits Jeff Butler, who turns out to be a comic artist. The original artwork is here on his website. I have not contacted him.
• File:Nightmare_creature.jpg, used in nightmare: credits jlcseiles, who turns out to be John L C Seiles, this tweet being the art source. I have not contacted him.
• File:Dwarf_justice.png, used in justice: credits gustav_black, but this seemingly is just a redditor who has at some time used/posted the image. I could not find the original source, even using reverse search engines.
• File:Criminal dwarf.jpg, used in criminal: credits Terry Colligan, likely because of this Pinterest post, but he is not the creator. Using reverse image search it turns out the image is older than that, the original artist being KaRzA-76, this being the original source (on DeviantArt).
• File:Dwarf_thinking.jpg, used in critical thinker: credits Falisia, the original artwork is this on DeviantArt.
• File:Dwarf_horse.jpg, used in mount: credits alarie-tano, the original artwork is this on DeviantArt.
• File:Dwarf_builder.jpg, used in carpenter: credits RDMP, but before I figured out who that was I found the original artist to be Jon Hodgson, the original artwork is this on DeviantArt.
• File:Dwarf_ranger.jpg, used in ranger: credits Felipe Pagliuso, the original artwork is found here on Artstation (scrolling down a little). I have not contacted him.
• File:Desert_turtle_man.png, used in desert tortoise man: credits BryanSyme, the original artwork is this on DeviantArt.

The other pictures are photographs (some of Wikipedia-quality, so they may be from there), art with no credited artist, a few that are self-licenced, and a few that claimed a license had been given to use on the DF Wiki only. There are also a fair amount of screenshots, both of DF and utilities. --Voliol (talk) 20:47, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your work, it seems you're faster than I am. I also noticed that the artworks had been uploaded here with licenses not present on the original DeviantArt page, which makes me suspicious of any license claimed by Zippy. Can we trust them when they say that the art has been uploaded with right to use on DF Wiki alone?

John Seiles' "nightmare" is also available on his Artstation page, but there too is no mention of any license.

In some cases, the uploaded art is used in a commercial game. Carpenter is used in Paizo's Kingmaker, dwarf ranger in Trudvang Legends boardgame, and File:Deity_preview.jpg (on this wiki on page deity), is JasonEngle's art made for Monte Cook Games Invisible Sun. I'm pretty certain neither Paizo nor Monte Cook Games have given rights to use art from their games on this wiki.

I'm sure you know this, but photographs are protected by copyright just as traditional art is. I'll go over those as well when I have time.

Given the responses you have already received, I marked File:Injured_dwarf.jpg and File:Desert_turtle_man.png for deletion. Tanamoril (talk) 07:18, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

WRT Mr. Butler; someone needs to bell the cat anyway, as seems to be apparent - how about I do that? Boilerplate'll need a little modding, though. Silverwing235 (talk) 09:41, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

To prevent this talk page from getting too cluttered, I created User:Tanamoril/Copyright_violations to keep track of the images which potentially violate copyright. I copied the list by User:Voliol there too, and I encourage others to update the list if needed. Tanamoril (talk) 17:15, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

....and, re infected ghoul, we have a removal order, gentlemen, but also another mark-down for the "game use" section: Call of Duty character concept art. Silverwing235 (talk) 18:49, 19 November 2021 (UTC)