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Difference between revisions of "v0.34:Stone management"

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{{quality|Exceptional|12:20, 6 October 2010 (UTC)}}{{av}}
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{{quality|Fine|08:31, 9 December 2012 (UTC)}}
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An established fortress with a reasonable amount of [[mining]] can create excess [[stone]]s and [[ore]]s--roughly one fourth of all excavated rock tiles will produce a stone. These stones may have a detrimental effect on the functionality and aesthetics of a fortress, so '''stone management''' techniques are often used.
  
An established fortress with a reasonable amount of [[mining]] can create excess [[stone]]s and [[ore]]s. These may have a detrimental effect on the aesthetics of a fortress, so '''stone management''' techniques are often used.
+
=Problems=
 +
Loose stones can interfere with regular operation of your fortress, particularly with buildings and stockpiles. When placing a building, any loose stones will normally be moved outside of the building tiles by the constructing dwarf. However, stones that are forbidden, already associated with another task, or placed upon the construction site after the designation will cause the construction to be suspended. Loose stones located in a designated [[stockpile]] can prevent the use of the occupied tile until the stone is removed, effectively shrinking your stockpile.
  
== Hide ==
+
Loose stones can also "hide" other content on a tile (since the game displays only a single item per tile). This can make finding specific items more difficult, and occasionally result in overlooked rotten items producing miasma that disgusts dwarves. Additionally, some players find these stones unsightly, ruining the aesthetic appeal of their fortresses.
Extra stone lying around causes little problems beyond being unsightly.  You can hide stones individually using {{k|k}}-{{k|h}}.  You might need to scroll in the Loo{{k|k}} menu to choose the stone you wish to hide.  You can hide many stones at a time by using the designate menu. Choose {{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|h}} and then select the stone you wish to hide by mouse or rectangle.
 
  
Please note, however, that stockpiles with hidden items on them will appear to have space available but can't be used for non-container items (like stone but not a barrel). This can be troublesome when your food stockpile appears to have room but your kitchen and farms clog up with food that will rot. Or furniture cluttering up the carpentry/masonry shop due to hidden stone blocking the furniture stockpile. Use the "Dump" method for stones on stockpiles to fix.
+
=Solutions=
  
== Dump ==
+
== Dumping / Quantum Stockpiling ==
This method is easy and useful. However, some view it as an [[exploit]], and it may not be allowed in later versions.
+
This method is easy and useful. However, some view it as an [[exploit]], and it may not be allowed in future versions.
  
 
# Make a [[zone]] of 1x1 or 1x2 tiles, preferably either near the stones you want to get rid of or your stone-needy [[workshop]]s, and mark it as a garbage dump.
 
# Make a [[zone]] of 1x1 or 1x2 tiles, preferably either near the stones you want to get rid of or your stone-needy [[workshop]]s, and mark it as a garbage dump.
Line 15: Line 17:
 
# A dwarf with refuse-hauling enabled will take the stone to the garbage dump.
 
# A dwarf with refuse-hauling enabled will take the stone to the garbage dump.
 
# Every dumped stone will be marked as "[[forbid]]den." Use the [[stocks]] menu to globally un-forbid types of stone, or use the designation 'Reclaim Items' ({{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|c}}) to reclaim the entire pile. ''(If you want to only use specific stones, you must press {{k|k}}, find the pile, and press {{k|f}} on every stone you want on the list, using {{k|+}}/{{k|-}} to navigate through the list. [[Macros_and_Keymaps|Macros]] may come in handy when employing this method.)''
 
# Every dumped stone will be marked as "[[forbid]]den." Use the [[stocks]] menu to globally un-forbid types of stone, or use the designation 'Reclaim Items' ({{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|c}}) to reclaim the entire pile. ''(If you want to only use specific stones, you must press {{k|k}}, find the pile, and press {{k|f}} on every stone you want on the list, using {{k|+}}/{{k|-}} to navigate through the list. [[Macros_and_Keymaps|Macros]] may come in handy when employing this method.)''
* '''Advantage''':
+
* '''Advantages''':
 
** No matter how many stones you mark for dumping, they will all be placed on the same tiny garbage tile. Conceivably, every single stone and ore in the fortress can fit on 1 tile.
 
** No matter how many stones you mark for dumping, they will all be placed on the same tiny garbage tile. Conceivably, every single stone and ore in the fortress can fit on 1 tile.
 
** You can use {{k|d}},{{k|b}},{{k|h}} to hide all the stone in a dump quickly.
 
** You can use {{k|d}},{{k|b}},{{k|h}} to hide all the stone in a dump quickly.
** Dumping stone, instead of just hiding, doesn't block stockpiles (unless the dump is on a stockpile).
+
** Dumping stone, instead of just hiding, doesn't interfere with stockpiles (unless the dump is on a stockpile).
* '''Disadvantage''':
+
** Placing your quantum stockpile near your mason or craftsdwarf workshop provides a convenient source of raw materials and greatly speeds up production.
 +
* '''Disadvantages''':
 +
** Considered by some to be an exploit.
 
** Anything else you dump will end up on those piles too.
 
** Anything else you dump will end up on those piles too.
 
** Dwarves will [[traffic|crawl over one another]] to get to a 1x1 dump.
 
** Dwarves will [[traffic|crawl over one another]] to get to a 1x1 dump.
** Take care not to lose overview if you use several or temporary dumps.
+
** Requires user oversight when using several temporary dumps.
** It can take a long time to clear all the stone from an area, so you need to be strategic about which stones you should dump and hide the rest.
+
** It can take a long time to clear all the stone from an area, so you may want to be strategic about which stones you dump and hide the rest.
** Having lots of garbage dumps on different Z-levels will cause the haulers to occasionally choose far away dump zones, making stone management take longer.
+
** Having multiple garbage dumps will cause the haulers to occasionally choose far away dump zones, spreading the stones out and making removal take longer.
** You have to claim stones for them to be used after they are dumped. {{k|d}},{{k|b}} will allow you to claim an entire pile of stones quickly.
+
** You have to claim stones for them to be used after they are dumped. {{k|d}},{{k|b}},{{k|c}} will allow you to claim an entire pile of stones quickly.
** Dumping lots of stones from several different areas can cause Dwarves to run long distances since the AI doesn't look for the closest stone. So it's best to dump stone from one area at a time.
+
** Dumping lots of stones from several different areas can cause Dwarves to run long distances since the AI doesn't look for the closest stone. So it's best to dump stone from a single area at a time.
  
== Pave Floors ==
+
== Stockpiling ==
Digging out a tile (usually) leaves behind a stone. Constructing a floor ({{k|b}}-{{k|C}}-{{k|f}}) on that tile requires a stone.  Use the former to do the latter, and you end up with a room with a fancier floor, and no stone. You can build stuff on top of it, too.
+
Stone can be selectively hauled by using two linked stockpiles. The first stockpile is placed over the area to be cleared, and the second is placed over the stones' final destination. Both of these stockpiles are set to take from links only, and the stockpiles are linked so that the first stockpile feeds into the second. More than two stockpiles may be linked in this fashion.
* '''Advantage''':
+
* '''Advantages''':
** Since you can get a maximum of one stone out of a tile, you'll never run out of tiles to put the stones back into.
+
** Unlike quantum stockpiling, is not generally considered an exploit.
** You can even get the stone back, if you need it later, by designating the floor for removal ({{k|d}}-{{k|n}}).
+
** Uses "Stone hauling" labor (instead of "Refuse hauling" for a quantum stockpile).
* '''Disadvantage''':
+
** Multiple linked stockpile areas can operate simultaneously and independently without cross-contamination.
**Paved floors cannot be engraved.
+
** Linking stockpiles prevents dwarves from hauling stones from all over the fortress.
** Requires dwarves with the masonry labor turned on, which can draw from your hauler base or distract your experienced masons from more urgent tasks.  
+
** No reclamation required--stockpiled stones are readily available to your masons and crafters.
** Getting the stone back requires removing the floor, and children and/or nobles are likely to respond first, and they work very slowly.
+
** If the stockpiles to be cleared are already in place, part of the work is already done.
Due to an old bug {{bug|1370}}, building and then removing a constructed floor like this will cause the stone floor underneath to change into the type of stone that makes up the layer (unless the tile contains downward stairs).
+
* '''Disadvantages''':
 +
** If the stockpiles to be cleared are intended for immediate use, they'll have to be linked to whichever workshop needs them.
 +
** Temporary stockpiles have to be kept track of.
 +
** The link status of permanent stockpiles has to be kept track of.
 +
** Requires relatively large stockpile areas to clear stone quickly--in general, an empty destination stockpile can remove stone from an area four times as large as the stockpile.
  
== Making use of stone ==
+
== Hiding ==
 +
Extra stone lying around in out-of-the-way areas causes little problems beyond being unsightly.  You can hide stones individually using {{k|k}}-{{k|h}}.  You might need to scroll in the Loo{{k|k}} menu to choose the stone you wish to hide.  You can hide many stones at a time by using the designate menu: choose {{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|h}} and then select the stone you wish to hide by mouse or rectangle.
  
Use your [[mason]]s to the fullest by creating doors, hatch covers, chairs, tables, coffers, cabinets, and statues. This builds up your mason's skill, and the furniture gives your dwarves good [[thoughts]].
+
Note that hidden items still interfere with buildings and stockpiles. Worse, buildings may be suspended for no apparent reason and stockpiles will appear to have blank tiles (since the stone is hidden), but those tiles are actually unusable. This can be troublesome when your food stockpile appears to have room but your kitchen and farms clog up with food that will rot. Or furniture cluttering up the carpentry/masonry shop due to hidden stone blocking the furniture stockpile. For this reason, it is best to use a different method to handle stones in your fortress proper.
 +
* '''Advantages''':
 +
** Instantaneous - no dwarf effort required.
 +
** Trivially resolves the "ugly stone" problem.
 +
* '''Disadvantages''':
 +
** Doesn't actually dispose of the stone.
 +
** Hidden stones can still cause functional problems, and prove more difficult to track down.
  
Skilled [[Craftsdwarf|Craftsdwarves]] can produce large quantities of rock crafts very quickly. This trades the problem of tons of stone to the much easier problem of tons of crafts. As long as you have bins, managing a stockpile of finished goods is easy. Crafts can be sold to foreign [[trade]]rs, who have plenty of room for a lot of goods.  
+
== Using Stone ==
 +
Perhaps the most "dwarfy" way to deal with excess stone is to ramp up production and use it to enrich your fortress.
  
You can also use stones (or blocks) to build large structures above ground, and floors over areas such as sand, silt, or loam.  The [[construction]] interface might be slow, but not only do you use up the stone from your excavations, but you can also create usable indoor space without having to mine any additional stone.  
+
=== Fancy Floors ===
 +
You can use excess stones to construct a floor ({{k|b}}-{{k|C}}-{{k|f}}) on any standard floor tile. Similarly, you can construct a paved [[road]] or a [[bridge]], with the added benefits of training your architect and providing the possibility for your dwarves to experience happy [[thought]]s when walking across the tile.
 +
* '''Advantages''':
 +
** You are guaranteed to have plenty of space for flooring.
 +
** You can get the stone back, if you need it later, by designating the floor for removal ({{k|d}}-{{k|n}}) or deconstructing the road/bridge.
 +
** Building roads and bridges trains your architect, resulting in higher-value constructions for your fortress.
 +
** Roads and bridges can generate happy thoughts when your dwarves walk across them--something even an engraved floor is currently unable to do.
 +
** Bridges built over engraved floors do not destroy the engraving, maximizing room value and happiness.
 +
* '''Disadvantages''':
 +
** Paved floors cannot be engraved.
 +
** Requires extensive dwarven effort (masons and/or architects) and can distract your lengendary dwarves from more important tasks.
 +
** Roads and bridges block further construction in the tile until the road/bridge is removed.
 +
** Getting the stone back requires additional effort.
 +
** When removing a constructed floor over a high-value base tile (gems, ore), the floor may revert to the layer stone type{{bug|1370}} (significantly reducing the value).
  
Building [[trap]]s can use up stone as well. [[Mechanism]]s are also made of stone, and a stone-fall trap requires one mechanism and one stone.
+
===Furniture===
 +
Use your [[mason]]s to the fullest by creating doors, hatch covers, chairs, tables, coffers, cabinets, and statues. This trains your mason's skill, and the resultant high-quality furniture has the best chance of causing happy [[thought]]s. Low-quality furniture can be traded to caravans, used to distract/delay [[building destroyer]]s, or disposed of (using an [[Dwarven atom smasher|atom smasher]], [[magma]], or a simple [[dump]] zone).
 +
* '''Advantages''':
 +
** More high-quality furniture leads to happier dwarves.
 +
** Increases "displayed" wealth when furniture is installed (and "created wealth" upon construction).
 +
** Trains mason skill.
 +
* '''Disadvantages''':
 +
** Furniture storage requires as much room as stone storage, though it is hauled faster.
 +
** Disposing of excess low-quality furniture can take additional time (and is significantly limited by weight when trading with caravans).
  
[[Siege engine|Catapults]] can use up stone and train [[Siege operator|siege operators]], as well as providing reasonable defence.
+
===Crafts===
 +
Skilled [[Craftsdwarf|Craftsdwarves]] can produce large quantities of rock crafts very quickly. This trades the problem of tons of stone to the much easier problem of pounds of crafts. Crafts are far lighter, much more valuable, stackable in finished goods [[bin]]s, and counted as "created items" and "created wealth" (which are used in several calculations behind-the-scenes). Stone crafts can be [[trade]]d for more useful items from any [[caravan]].
 +
* '''Advantages''':
 +
** Very compact storage, and great fodder for trade caravans.
 +
** Increases "created wealth" and "created items" count.
 +
** Trains stonecrafting skill.
 +
* '''Disadvantages''':
 +
** High stonecrafting skill is not extremely useful.
 +
** Easily produces more crafts than necessary to purchase an entire caravan.
  
You can make a 'practice pile' where you just have dwarves make lots of furniture out of stones, and then dump those furniture. The dwarves will get lots of skill. Another option instead of dumping is to let them make statues, then plant them outside, to make a huge statue garden. Another option is to craft stone blocks, which can be stacked in bins, and use them in smooth [[construction]]s.
+
===Constructions===
 +
You can also use stones (or [[block]]s) to build large structures above ground, and floors on soil layers like sand, silt, and loam. The [[construction]] interface might be slow, but not only do you use up the stone from your excavations, you also create usable indoor space without having to mine any additional stone.
 +
* '''Advantages''':
 +
** Creates more usable space.
 +
** Can qualify as a [[megaprojects|megaproject]].
 +
* '''Disadvantages''':
 +
** Mining creates more valuable and generally safer usable space in a fraction of the time.
 +
** Dwarves move slowly when hauling loose stone across your fortress and building constructions out of it.
 +
 
 +
===Defense===
 +
Stone can provide some defense for your fortress as well. Stone-fall [[trap]]s require one [[mechanism]] (which can be created from stone) and one stone. [[Siege engine|Catapults]] can use up stone and train [[Siege operator|siege operators]], as well as providing minimal defense. With the recent falling damage updates, simply dropping a stone multiple z-levels proves quite deadly to those unlucky enough to be underneath.
 +
* '''Advantages''':
 +
** Provides minimal defense.
 +
** Catapults train siege operating skill, and can be useful for [[cross-training]] military units.
 +
* '''Disadvantages''':
 +
** Most other traps are more effective than stone-fall traps.
 +
** Catapults are generally ineffective against even lightly-armored foes.
 +
** Dropping large amounts of stone on invaders requires significant micromanagement.

Latest revision as of 04:07, 2 February 2016

This article is about an older version of DF.

An established fortress with a reasonable amount of mining can create excess stones and ores--roughly one fourth of all excavated rock tiles will produce a stone. These stones may have a detrimental effect on the functionality and aesthetics of a fortress, so stone management techniques are often used.

Problems[edit]

Loose stones can interfere with regular operation of your fortress, particularly with buildings and stockpiles. When placing a building, any loose stones will normally be moved outside of the building tiles by the constructing dwarf. However, stones that are forbidden, already associated with another task, or placed upon the construction site after the designation will cause the construction to be suspended. Loose stones located in a designated stockpile can prevent the use of the occupied tile until the stone is removed, effectively shrinking your stockpile.

Loose stones can also "hide" other content on a tile (since the game displays only a single item per tile). This can make finding specific items more difficult, and occasionally result in overlooked rotten items producing miasma that disgusts dwarves. Additionally, some players find these stones unsightly, ruining the aesthetic appeal of their fortresses.

Solutions[edit]

Dumping / Quantum Stockpiling[edit]

This method is easy and useful. However, some view it as an exploit, and it may not be allowed in future versions.

  1. Make a zone of 1x1 or 1x2 tiles, preferably either near the stones you want to get rid of or your stone-needy workshops, and mark it as a garbage dump.
  2. Press k and find a stone. Press d, and the stone will be marked for dumping. Alternatively, use the stocks menu (faster for mass dumping, but requires some bookkeeper labor first). You can also use d,b,d to designate mass items for dumping. You could also use a dumping macro to designate large amounts of stones at once. However, macros do not discriminate between stones and other items, so it is best to use them right after you dig out a new area. Be careful when you mark areas containing cave spider silk for dumping, as dwarves will actually come along and destroy the webs!
  3. A dwarf with refuse-hauling enabled will take the stone to the garbage dump.
  4. Every dumped stone will be marked as "forbidden." Use the stocks menu to globally un-forbid types of stone, or use the designation 'Reclaim Items' (d-b-c) to reclaim the entire pile. (If you want to only use specific stones, you must press k, find the pile, and press f on every stone you want on the list, using +/- to navigate through the list. Macros may come in handy when employing this method.)
  • Advantages:
    • No matter how many stones you mark for dumping, they will all be placed on the same tiny garbage tile. Conceivably, every single stone and ore in the fortress can fit on 1 tile.
    • You can use d,b,h to hide all the stone in a dump quickly.
    • Dumping stone, instead of just hiding, doesn't interfere with stockpiles (unless the dump is on a stockpile).
    • Placing your quantum stockpile near your mason or craftsdwarf workshop provides a convenient source of raw materials and greatly speeds up production.
  • Disadvantages:
    • Considered by some to be an exploit.
    • Anything else you dump will end up on those piles too.
    • Dwarves will crawl over one another to get to a 1x1 dump.
    • Requires user oversight when using several temporary dumps.
    • It can take a long time to clear all the stone from an area, so you may want to be strategic about which stones you dump and hide the rest.
    • Having multiple garbage dumps will cause the haulers to occasionally choose far away dump zones, spreading the stones out and making removal take longer.
    • You have to claim stones for them to be used after they are dumped. d,b,c will allow you to claim an entire pile of stones quickly.
    • Dumping lots of stones from several different areas can cause Dwarves to run long distances since the AI doesn't look for the closest stone. So it's best to dump stone from a single area at a time.

Stockpiling[edit]

Stone can be selectively hauled by using two linked stockpiles. The first stockpile is placed over the area to be cleared, and the second is placed over the stones' final destination. Both of these stockpiles are set to take from links only, and the stockpiles are linked so that the first stockpile feeds into the second. More than two stockpiles may be linked in this fashion.

  • Advantages:
    • Unlike quantum stockpiling, is not generally considered an exploit.
    • Uses "Stone hauling" labor (instead of "Refuse hauling" for a quantum stockpile).
    • Multiple linked stockpile areas can operate simultaneously and independently without cross-contamination.
    • Linking stockpiles prevents dwarves from hauling stones from all over the fortress.
    • No reclamation required--stockpiled stones are readily available to your masons and crafters.
    • If the stockpiles to be cleared are already in place, part of the work is already done.
  • Disadvantages:
    • If the stockpiles to be cleared are intended for immediate use, they'll have to be linked to whichever workshop needs them.
    • Temporary stockpiles have to be kept track of.
    • The link status of permanent stockpiles has to be kept track of.
    • Requires relatively large stockpile areas to clear stone quickly--in general, an empty destination stockpile can remove stone from an area four times as large as the stockpile.

Hiding[edit]

Extra stone lying around in out-of-the-way areas causes little problems beyond being unsightly. You can hide stones individually using k-h. You might need to scroll in the Look menu to choose the stone you wish to hide. You can hide many stones at a time by using the designate menu: choose d-b-h and then select the stone you wish to hide by mouse or rectangle.

Note that hidden items still interfere with buildings and stockpiles. Worse, buildings may be suspended for no apparent reason and stockpiles will appear to have blank tiles (since the stone is hidden), but those tiles are actually unusable. This can be troublesome when your food stockpile appears to have room but your kitchen and farms clog up with food that will rot. Or furniture cluttering up the carpentry/masonry shop due to hidden stone blocking the furniture stockpile. For this reason, it is best to use a different method to handle stones in your fortress proper.

  • Advantages:
    • Instantaneous - no dwarf effort required.
    • Trivially resolves the "ugly stone" problem.
  • Disadvantages:
    • Doesn't actually dispose of the stone.
    • Hidden stones can still cause functional problems, and prove more difficult to track down.

Using Stone[edit]

Perhaps the most "dwarfy" way to deal with excess stone is to ramp up production and use it to enrich your fortress.

Fancy Floors[edit]

You can use excess stones to construct a floor (b-C-f) on any standard floor tile. Similarly, you can construct a paved road or a bridge, with the added benefits of training your architect and providing the possibility for your dwarves to experience happy thoughts when walking across the tile.

  • Advantages:
    • You are guaranteed to have plenty of space for flooring.
    • You can get the stone back, if you need it later, by designating the floor for removal (d-n) or deconstructing the road/bridge.
    • Building roads and bridges trains your architect, resulting in higher-value constructions for your fortress.
    • Roads and bridges can generate happy thoughts when your dwarves walk across them--something even an engraved floor is currently unable to do.
    • Bridges built over engraved floors do not destroy the engraving, maximizing room value and happiness.
  • Disadvantages:
    • Paved floors cannot be engraved.
    • Requires extensive dwarven effort (masons and/or architects) and can distract your lengendary dwarves from more important tasks.
    • Roads and bridges block further construction in the tile until the road/bridge is removed.
    • Getting the stone back requires additional effort.
    • When removing a constructed floor over a high-value base tile (gems, ore), the floor may revert to the layer stone typeBug:1370 (significantly reducing the value).

Furniture[edit]

Use your masons to the fullest by creating doors, hatch covers, chairs, tables, coffers, cabinets, and statues. This trains your mason's skill, and the resultant high-quality furniture has the best chance of causing happy thoughts. Low-quality furniture can be traded to caravans, used to distract/delay building destroyers, or disposed of (using an atom smasher, magma, or a simple dump zone).

  • Advantages:
    • More high-quality furniture leads to happier dwarves.
    • Increases "displayed" wealth when furniture is installed (and "created wealth" upon construction).
    • Trains mason skill.
  • Disadvantages:
    • Furniture storage requires as much room as stone storage, though it is hauled faster.
    • Disposing of excess low-quality furniture can take additional time (and is significantly limited by weight when trading with caravans).

Crafts[edit]

Skilled Craftsdwarves can produce large quantities of rock crafts very quickly. This trades the problem of tons of stone to the much easier problem of pounds of crafts. Crafts are far lighter, much more valuable, stackable in finished goods bins, and counted as "created items" and "created wealth" (which are used in several calculations behind-the-scenes). Stone crafts can be traded for more useful items from any caravan.

  • Advantages:
    • Very compact storage, and great fodder for trade caravans.
    • Increases "created wealth" and "created items" count.
    • Trains stonecrafting skill.
  • Disadvantages:
    • High stonecrafting skill is not extremely useful.
    • Easily produces more crafts than necessary to purchase an entire caravan.

Constructions[edit]

You can also use stones (or blocks) to build large structures above ground, and floors on soil layers like sand, silt, and loam. The construction interface might be slow, but not only do you use up the stone from your excavations, you also create usable indoor space without having to mine any additional stone.

  • Advantages:
    • Creates more usable space.
    • Can qualify as a megaproject.
  • Disadvantages:
    • Mining creates more valuable and generally safer usable space in a fraction of the time.
    • Dwarves move slowly when hauling loose stone across your fortress and building constructions out of it.

Defense[edit]

Stone can provide some defense for your fortress as well. Stone-fall traps require one mechanism (which can be created from stone) and one stone. Catapults can use up stone and train siege operators, as well as providing minimal defense. With the recent falling damage updates, simply dropping a stone multiple z-levels proves quite deadly to those unlucky enough to be underneath.

  • Advantages:
    • Provides minimal defense.
    • Catapults train siege operating skill, and can be useful for cross-training military units.
  • Disadvantages:
    • Most other traps are more effective than stone-fall traps.
    • Catapults are generally ineffective against even lightly-armored foes.
    • Dropping large amounts of stone on invaders requires significant micromanagement.