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Difference between revisions of "Variable positions"

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= Introduction =  
 
= Introduction =  
  
−
This page documents the variable positions that entities create when neccesary. This is the case for [[Human]] and [[Goblin]] [[Civilization|civilizations]], but also for merchant's guilds, mercenary groups, [[Religion|religious groups]] and [[Criminal|criminal]]s.
+
This page documents the variable positions that entities create when neccesary. This is - in vanilla - the case for [[Human]] and [[Goblin]] [[Civilization|civilizations]], but also for merchant's guilds, mercenary groups, [[Religion|religious groups]] and [[Criminal|criminal]]s.
 +
 
 +
Initially none of the positions marked as variable do exist for an entity. The positions will only exist for a given entity, if they are either created during world-gen, world-activies(?) or by memory hacking or scripting (ie. with lua). Ie. in vanilla all human civilizations have at the beginning of the world-generation no positions at all, neither on the site nor civ level, as all positions of the vanilla human civs are marked as variable (variable positions: all). When a variable (civ level) position is created, the position is only created for that civilization (entity) and not for any other entities of the same type. Ie. the creation of a law-giver for one human civ does not create law-givers for other human civs.
 +
 
 +
Also presumably all site-level positions for each entity are created on a per site basis, meaning the creation of a site ruler for one site (of a civ) does not also create the site ruler positions for any other site (of that civ).
 +
 
 +
The existance of a (variable) position does not mean, that the position will also be filled by a historical figure. But during world-gen the creation of a position will usually be followed-up with the position being filled. Ie. the human historical figure, who forced the creation of a law-giver position, will usually become the first law-giver.
 +
 
 +
For the succession rules of a variable position (after the position has been initially filled by a historical figure), presumably, the same rules as for non-variable positions apply.
 +
 
 +
(Disclaimer: The following only applies during world-gen and normal world activities. Scripting and memory hacking can circumvent the normal limitations, but with currently unknown results).
 +
 
 +
For civ level entities, if the law-giving position is a variable position, the law-giving position does not (seem to) have any further requirements to be created (ie. no other position being already created). Ie. this position can be created by force (or popular support etc.) by any historical figure of that civ. But for all other variable (civ-level) positions the law-giving position must exist as usually the historical figure, who is the law-giver, does create the other variable positions (for various reason).
 +
 
 +
Something similiar is probably the case for site level positions. Ie. if the ruler of a site is a variable positions, that position needs to be created, before any other site-level variable positions can be created. And the site ruler can afterwards create other variable positions for that site. It is not yet clear if a site level ruling position can be created before a civ level ruling (law-giving) position is created (or exists). This also means that it should be possible, via memory-hacking or scripting, to create (and fill) the variable site level positions (for a player site), at least after the civ level law-giving position has been created (and the law-giving position has been filled), so that a human player site gets the maximum possible human site level positions (with the normal appointment rules for the succession/reappointment of the positions), without having to edit the raw files (as outlined in the human civ page), prior to creating a world, to make the variable positions of human civilizations to "static" ones.
 +
 
 +
Presumably for guilds (Merchant Guild and other Guilds), mercenary groups, religious orders (and criminals) also a "leader" position needs to be created by a historical figure, before other variable positions for that entity can be created.
 +
 
 +
== General Info ==
 +
So far no restrictions on allowed_class, allowed_creature have been found and also the rejected_creature and rejected_class entries are always empty. Squad_size has so far been empty, except for CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER and CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2 where the squad_size was 20. Also most other entries (of entity_position entry under "own") not mentioned below have standard values (ie. are empty).
 +
 
 +
== Variable Civilization Government Positions ==
 +
If all positions of a civ are variable, then the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER position needs to be created (in world-gen), before other positions (of the possible positions) can be created. After the creation (and filling) of the law-maker positions, the other variable positions (both CUSTOM_OFFICIALS_i and CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIALS_i, where i stands for a non-zero natural number) can be created in any order. These other positions are then always appointed by the law-maker of the civ. The law-maker position itself uses succession by heir.
 +
 
 +
== Variable Site Government Positions ==
 +
If all positions of a civ (and with that of a site government) are variable, then the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER position for the site government needs to be created (in world-gen), before other positions (of the possible positions) can be created. The initial CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER positions is not appointed by the law-giver of the civilization and the historical figure occupying it is usually called "lord" (if male) and "lady" (if female). If a law-giver of the civilization exists, then the lord of a site (leader of a site government) can be replaced by a CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2. The law-giver of the civilization appoints the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2. The CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2 is (at least in case of the so far checked human civ) always called baron (if male) or baronness (if female). If a CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2 position has been created the flag "active" (of the original CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER position) is set to false and the flag "has_been_replaced" is set to true. The position of the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER is always the next_position_id of the civ (either at the time of creation of the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER position for the site or the time of creation of the site government). The creation of a variable position (for a site government) always increments the next_position_id by 1 (and also increases next_assignment_id by 1, which is always on creation of an entity with all variable positions and thus no positions existing on creation of the entity initialized to 0).
 +
 
 +
Regardless of whether a lord/lady has been upgraded to a baron/baroness other variable positions (both CUSTOM_OFFICIALS_i and CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIALS_i, where i stands for a non-zero natural number) can be created in any order. These other positions are then always appointed by the lord (or baron) of the site. In case the position has been created before a lord has been upgraded to a baron the appointed_by and appointed_by_civ (in the position definition) refer to the position of the lord (and are not updated to point to the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2 position, when its gets created). In case the position are created after a lord has been allivated to a baron the appointed_by and appointed_by_civ (in the position definition) refer to the position of the baron.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
(Note: the following subsections might need moving into a wiki table).
 +
So far the following CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_i and CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_i (for site governments) have been found (except for the position_id, appointed_by, appointed_by_civ and name entries the values for CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_i are usually the same for civ positions and site government positions):
 +
 
 +
=== CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_3 (treasurer) ===
 +
The name is variable, ie. the names "head treasurer", "chief treasurer" have been found. The other entries of the CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_3 are fixed (except the position_id, appointed_by and appointed_by_civ entries - see above). The responsibilities are trade and accounting.
 +
precedence: 70; number: 1; mandates (max): 1; demands (max): 2;
 +
best_appointment_precedence: 30001 (disclaimer: needs verification, whether this is only the case for the specific world or a general hard-coded value).
 +
standard custom official flags, which means: "duty_bound", "has_responsibilities", "do_not_cull", "has_met_pop_req", "color", "menial_work_exemption", "has_received_positions", "active" and "has_met_market_req" set to true.
 +
standard color entry, which means 0: 5, 1: 0 and 2: 1 (number before the ":" is the index and the number after the ":" is the actual value).
 +
 
 +
=== CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_4 (advisor) ===
 +
The name is variable, ie. the names "chief advisor", "head advisor" and "head counselor" have been found (so far). The other entries of the CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_4 are fixed (except the position_id, appointed_by and appointed_by_civ entries - see above). The responsibilites is advise_leaders.
 +
precedence: 55; number: 1; mandates (max): 1; demands (max): 2;
 +
best_appointment_precedence: 30001
 +
standard custom official flags and standard color entry.
 +
 
 +
=== CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_6 (Master of beasts) ===
 +
The name does not seem to be variable and is called "master of beasts" (and is also shared with the position of CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_6 of a civ). The responsibilities are manage_animals and tame_exotics.
 +
Again the entries, except position_id and appointed_by and appointed_by_civ entries, are fixed.
 +
precedence: 90; number: 1; mandates (max): 0; demands (max): 1;
 +
best_appointment_precedence: 30001
 +
standard custom official flags and standard color entry.
 +
 
 +
=== CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_9 (Executioner) ===
 +
The name is variable, ie. the names "head executioners" and "high executioners" have been found (so far). The other entries are fixed (except for the usual exceptions). The responsibilities is surprisingly executions.
 +
precedence: 320; number: 1; no mandates or demands
 +
best_appointment_precedence: 30001
 +
standard custom official flags and standard color entry.
 +
 
 +
=== CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_11 (Housekeeper) ===
 +
The name (for the site governments) is "chief housekeeper" (allthough it might just be that the name is variable, but no other name has been found yet). The other entries are fixed (except for the usual exceptions). Responsibility: Cleaning ("MANAGE_LEADER_HOUSEHOLD_CLEANLINESS").
 +
precedence: 340; number: 1; no mandates or demands
 +
best_appointment_precedence: 30001
 +
standard custom official flags and standard color entry.
 +
 
 +
=== CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_5 (Chamberlain) ===
 +
The name (for the site governments) is "Chamberlain". Responsibility: Oversee_leader_household
 +
precedence: 80; number: 1; demand (max): 1
 +
best_appointment_precedence: 30001
 +
standard custom official flags and standard color entry.
 +
 
 +
=== CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_6 (Road Caretaker) ===
 +
The name (for the site governments) is road caretaker. Responsibility: maintain_roads, maintain_bridges and surprisingly maintain_tunnels.
 +
precedence: 375; number: 1; demand (max): 1
 +
best_appointment_precedence: 30001
 +
standard custom official flags and standard color entry.
 +
 
 +
=== CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_3 ((Unneeded) Fire Safety) ===
 +
The name is variable, both fire adminstrator and fire official have been found (but not arsonist). Responsibility: fire_safety
 +
precedence: 475; number: 1; no mandates or demands
 +
best_appointment_precedence: 30001
 +
standard custom official flags and standard color entry.
 +
 
 +
=== CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_2 (Food Administrator) ===
 +
The name is variable as grain administrator and harvest administrator have been found (so far). Responsibilities: food_supply
 +
precedence: 450; number: 1; demand (max): 1
 +
best_appointment_precedence: 30001
 +
standard custom official flags and standard color entry.
 +
 
 +
=== CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_5 ((Unneeded) Building Commissioners) ===
 +
The name is variable. The names building commissioners and building administrator have been found (so far). Responsibilities: building_safety and construction_permits.
 +
precedence: 460; number: 1; demand (max): 1
 +
best_appointment_precedence: 30001
 +
standard custom official flags and standard color entry.
 +
 
  
 
== Sources to process ==
 
== Sources to process ==
 +
See spoiler-sections of those posts.
 
* https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178697.msg8295235#msg8295235
 
* https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178697.msg8295235#msg8295235
 
* https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175434.msg8084095#msg8084095
 
* https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175434.msg8084095#msg8084095
 +
* https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175434.msg8083631#msg8083631 (first answer)
  
 
= Raw tokens =
 
= Raw tokens =
 
The tokens that manage the creation of positions are [[Entity_token#SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS|SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS]] and [[Entity_token#VARIABLE_POSITIONS|VARIABLE_POSITIONS]].  
 
The tokens that manage the creation of positions are [[Entity_token#SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS|SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS]] and [[Entity_token#VARIABLE_POSITIONS|VARIABLE_POSITIONS]].  
  
−
SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS allows for the creation of lords, hearthpersons, the [[Boss] and [VARIABLE_POSITIONS] for Law-maker
+
SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS allows for the creation of lords, hearthpersons, and [[boss]]es, and [VARIABLE_POSITIONS] allows creation of Law-makers.
  
 
= Generated positions =
 
= Generated positions =

Latest revision as of 11:14, 8 February 2026

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Introduction[edit]

This page documents the variable positions that entities create when neccesary. This is - in vanilla - the case for Human and Goblin civilizations, but also for merchant's guilds, mercenary groups, religious groups and criminals.

Initially none of the positions marked as variable do exist for an entity. The positions will only exist for a given entity, if they are either created during world-gen, world-activies(?) or by memory hacking or scripting (ie. with lua). Ie. in vanilla all human civilizations have at the beginning of the world-generation no positions at all, neither on the site nor civ level, as all positions of the vanilla human civs are marked as variable (variable positions: all). When a variable (civ level) position is created, the position is only created for that civilization (entity) and not for any other entities of the same type. Ie. the creation of a law-giver for one human civ does not create law-givers for other human civs.

Also presumably all site-level positions for each entity are created on a per site basis, meaning the creation of a site ruler for one site (of a civ) does not also create the site ruler positions for any other site (of that civ).

The existance of a (variable) position does not mean, that the position will also be filled by a historical figure. But during world-gen the creation of a position will usually be followed-up with the position being filled. Ie. the human historical figure, who forced the creation of a law-giver position, will usually become the first law-giver.

For the succession rules of a variable position (after the position has been initially filled by a historical figure), presumably, the same rules as for non-variable positions apply.

(Disclaimer: The following only applies during world-gen and normal world activities. Scripting and memory hacking can circumvent the normal limitations, but with currently unknown results).

For civ level entities, if the law-giving position is a variable position, the law-giving position does not (seem to) have any further requirements to be created (ie. no other position being already created). Ie. this position can be created by force (or popular support etc.) by any historical figure of that civ. But for all other variable (civ-level) positions the law-giving position must exist as usually the historical figure, who is the law-giver, does create the other variable positions (for various reason).

Something similiar is probably the case for site level positions. Ie. if the ruler of a site is a variable positions, that position needs to be created, before any other site-level variable positions can be created. And the site ruler can afterwards create other variable positions for that site. It is not yet clear if a site level ruling position can be created before a civ level ruling (law-giving) position is created (or exists). This also means that it should be possible, via memory-hacking or scripting, to create (and fill) the variable site level positions (for a player site), at least after the civ level law-giving position has been created (and the law-giving position has been filled), so that a human player site gets the maximum possible human site level positions (with the normal appointment rules for the succession/reappointment of the positions), without having to edit the raw files (as outlined in the human civ page), prior to creating a world, to make the variable positions of human civilizations to "static" ones.

Presumably for guilds (Merchant Guild and other Guilds), mercenary groups, religious orders (and criminals) also a "leader" position needs to be created by a historical figure, before other variable positions for that entity can be created.

General Info[edit]

So far no restrictions on allowed_class, allowed_creature have been found and also the rejected_creature and rejected_class entries are always empty. Squad_size has so far been empty, except for CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER and CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2 where the squad_size was 20. Also most other entries (of entity_position entry under "own") not mentioned below have standard values (ie. are empty).

Variable Civilization Government Positions[edit]

If all positions of a civ are variable, then the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER position needs to be created (in world-gen), before other positions (of the possible positions) can be created. After the creation (and filling) of the law-maker positions, the other variable positions (both CUSTOM_OFFICIALS_i and CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIALS_i, where i stands for a non-zero natural number) can be created in any order. These other positions are then always appointed by the law-maker of the civ. The law-maker position itself uses succession by heir.

Variable Site Government Positions[edit]

If all positions of a civ (and with that of a site government) are variable, then the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER position for the site government needs to be created (in world-gen), before other positions (of the possible positions) can be created. The initial CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER positions is not appointed by the law-giver of the civilization and the historical figure occupying it is usually called "lord" (if male) and "lady" (if female). If a law-giver of the civilization exists, then the lord of a site (leader of a site government) can be replaced by a CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2. The law-giver of the civilization appoints the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2. The CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2 is (at least in case of the so far checked human civ) always called baron (if male) or baronness (if female). If a CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2 position has been created the flag "active" (of the original CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER position) is set to false and the flag "has_been_replaced" is set to true. The position of the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER is always the next_position_id of the civ (either at the time of creation of the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER position for the site or the time of creation of the site government). The creation of a variable position (for a site government) always increments the next_position_id by 1 (and also increases next_assignment_id by 1, which is always on creation of an entity with all variable positions and thus no positions existing on creation of the entity initialized to 0).

Regardless of whether a lord/lady has been upgraded to a baron/baroness other variable positions (both CUSTOM_OFFICIALS_i and CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIALS_i, where i stands for a non-zero natural number) can be created in any order. These other positions are then always appointed by the lord (or baron) of the site. In case the position has been created before a lord has been upgraded to a baron the appointed_by and appointed_by_civ (in the position definition) refer to the position of the lord (and are not updated to point to the CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2 position, when its gets created). In case the position are created after a lord has been allivated to a baron the appointed_by and appointed_by_civ (in the position definition) refer to the position of the baron.


(Note: the following subsections might need moving into a wiki table). So far the following CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_i and CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_i (for site governments) have been found (except for the position_id, appointed_by, appointed_by_civ and name entries the values for CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_i are usually the same for civ positions and site government positions):

CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_3 (treasurer)[edit]

The name is variable, ie. the names "head treasurer", "chief treasurer" have been found. The other entries of the CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_3 are fixed (except the position_id, appointed_by and appointed_by_civ entries - see above). The responsibilities are trade and accounting. precedence: 70; number: 1; mandates (max): 1; demands (max): 2; best_appointment_precedence: 30001 (disclaimer: needs verification, whether this is only the case for the specific world or a general hard-coded value). standard custom official flags, which means: "duty_bound", "has_responsibilities", "do_not_cull", "has_met_pop_req", "color", "menial_work_exemption", "has_received_positions", "active" and "has_met_market_req" set to true. standard color entry, which means 0: 5, 1: 0 and 2: 1 (number before the ":" is the index and the number after the ":" is the actual value).

CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_4 (advisor)[edit]

The name is variable, ie. the names "chief advisor", "head advisor" and "head counselor" have been found (so far). The other entries of the CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_4 are fixed (except the position_id, appointed_by and appointed_by_civ entries - see above). The responsibilites is advise_leaders. precedence: 55; number: 1; mandates (max): 1; demands (max): 2; best_appointment_precedence: 30001 standard custom official flags and standard color entry.

CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_6 (Master of beasts)[edit]

The name does not seem to be variable and is called "master of beasts" (and is also shared with the position of CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_6 of a civ). The responsibilities are manage_animals and tame_exotics. Again the entries, except position_id and appointed_by and appointed_by_civ entries, are fixed. precedence: 90; number: 1; mandates (max): 0; demands (max): 1; best_appointment_precedence: 30001 standard custom official flags and standard color entry.

CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_9 (Executioner)[edit]

The name is variable, ie. the names "head executioners" and "high executioners" have been found (so far). The other entries are fixed (except for the usual exceptions). The responsibilities is surprisingly executions. precedence: 320; number: 1; no mandates or demands best_appointment_precedence: 30001 standard custom official flags and standard color entry.

CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_11 (Housekeeper)[edit]

The name (for the site governments) is "chief housekeeper" (allthough it might just be that the name is variable, but no other name has been found yet). The other entries are fixed (except for the usual exceptions). Responsibility: Cleaning ("MANAGE_LEADER_HOUSEHOLD_CLEANLINESS"). precedence: 340; number: 1; no mandates or demands best_appointment_precedence: 30001 standard custom official flags and standard color entry.

CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_5 (Chamberlain)[edit]

The name (for the site governments) is "Chamberlain". Responsibility: Oversee_leader_household precedence: 80; number: 1; demand (max): 1 best_appointment_precedence: 30001 standard custom official flags and standard color entry.

CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_6 (Road Caretaker)[edit]

The name (for the site governments) is road caretaker. Responsibility: maintain_roads, maintain_bridges and surprisingly maintain_tunnels. precedence: 375; number: 1; demand (max): 1 best_appointment_precedence: 30001 standard custom official flags and standard color entry.

CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_3 ((Unneeded) Fire Safety)[edit]

The name is variable, both fire adminstrator and fire official have been found (but not arsonist). Responsibility: fire_safety precedence: 475; number: 1; no mandates or demands best_appointment_precedence: 30001 standard custom official flags and standard color entry.

CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_2 (Food Administrator)[edit]

The name is variable as grain administrator and harvest administrator have been found (so far). Responsibilities: food_supply precedence: 450; number: 1; demand (max): 1 best_appointment_precedence: 30001 standard custom official flags and standard color entry.

CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_5 ((Unneeded) Building Commissioners)[edit]

The name is variable. The names building commissioners and building administrator have been found (so far). Responsibilities: building_safety and construction_permits. precedence: 460; number: 1; demand (max): 1 best_appointment_precedence: 30001 standard custom official flags and standard color entry.


Sources to process[edit]

See spoiler-sections of those posts.

Raw tokens[edit]

The tokens that manage the creation of positions are SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS and VARIABLE_POSITIONS.

SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS allows for the creation of lords, hearthpersons, and bosses, and [VARIABLE_POSITIONS] allows creation of Law-makers.

Generated positions[edit]

The following positions can be created. Note: these should be sorted among the different group types.

  • CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER
  • CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER_2
  • CUSTOM_OUTCAST_LT
  • CUSTOM_OUTCAST_FACTOR
  • CUSTOM_COMPANY_LEADER
  • CUSTOM_COMPANY_FACTOR
  • CUSTOM_MERCENARY_LEADER
  • CUSTOM_MERCENARY_TREASURER
  • CUSTOM_BANDIT_LEADER
  • CUSTOM_MARKET_OFFICIAL_#
  • CUSTOM_OFFICIAL_#
  • CUSTOM_MILITARY_STRATEGY
  • CUSTOM_MILITARY_GOALS
  • HIGHEST_PRIEST
  • HIGH_PRIEST
  • CUSTOM_GUILD_LEADER
  • CUSTOM_GUILD_STEWARD
  • CUSTOM_GUILD_CLERK
  • CUSTOM_GUILD_ALDERPERSON
  • WORSHIP_HF

The following names can be seen given to those positions. Note: these should be sorted among the different positions.

  • lord
  • hearthperson
  • factor
  • agent
  • governor
  • lieutenant
  • representative
  • head
  • chieftain
  • warlord
  • ringleader
  • cup-bearer
  • butler
  • master of beasts
  • sewer
  • housekeeper
  • chef
  • executioner
  • chancellor
  • chief
  • chamberlain
  • captain
  • chief / chieftess
  • constable
  • royal
  • advisor
  • counselor
  • justiciar
  • keeper of the seal
  • law-giver
  • baron
  • marshal
  • war leader
  • most high priest
  • absolute X
  • most exalted X
  • most high X
  • most holy X
  • most sacred X
  • treasurer
  • recordkeeper
  • clerk
  • bookkeeper
  • doyen / doyenne
  • dean
  • steward
  • alderperson
  • X administrator
  • X official (like grain official)
  • X officials
  • X commissioner
  • X commissioners
  • X caretakers
  • judge
  • justices
  • magistrate
  • abbot
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