Difference between revisions of "User:Desistance/Scratch"

Latest revision as of 02:05, 10 January 2023

Unacceptable items[edit]

Elves view living trees as sacred and dislike the killing of non-hostile animals; they're the only unmodded civilization to do so. Offering them wood or animal-derived products will offend the merchant. The merchant will rebuke your broker and leave immediately. This offense reduces your civilization's diplomatic relationship with the elves' civilization, possibly leading to war after multiple infractions.

Items made from wood[edit]

Once a beautiful tree, and now? It is a rude bauble, fit only for your kind.

Elves do not want to be offered items you made from wood, nor do they want most items that require wood as part of their creation process.

All items made of or decorated with wood. This includes wood from tree-like subterranean fungus, such as tower-caps. Elves make an exception for the "grown" wood items they make themselves, but items made by other races using "grown" wooden logs are still not acceptable.
All items made of or decorated with wood derivatives. This includes ash, potash, pearlash, charcoal, and lye. Note the exception for ash-glazed earthenware below, however.
Items made from or decorated with clear or crystal glass, as these items require pearlash in their creation. Again, note the exception for raw or cut glass gems below.
Obsidian short swords. These require wood in their production, for the handle.

Animal products[edit]

I see your low race still revels in death. That poor, gentle creature...

Elves also reject the majority of animal products. This taboo extends to items made from intelligent creatures, despite the fact that you may see elf historical figures wearing items made from the hair or bones of their enemies.

Items and decorations made from body parts, such as hair, bone/skull, shell, horn/hoof/antler, and ivory/tooth. It also includes items dwarfs can't normally use for crafting, such as nails, chitin, and scales.
Corpses and body parts themselves, although these are usually worthless anyway.
Leather or parchment/vellum, and all items made from them. These are made from skins.
Wool yarn and cloth, as well as all items made from them. It doesn't matter how well you treat your sheep, elves still associate animal products with death.
Meat (including prepared organs), fish (both raw and prepared), fat, and tallow
Eggs. Elves aren't keen on keeping chickens, either.
Prepared meals made using any of the above products.
Tallow soap
Blood, even if you somehow manage to get it into an elf-friendly container.

Examine your items carefully! Elf traders will reject containers holding a prohibited item, otherwise-acceptable items stored in a prohibited container, and all items «decorated» with a prohibited material. If you want to sell food or liquid to elves, it's best to use a large pot or one of their own grown wood barrels.

Note that elves only care about the items they are actually offered. It's perfectly allowable to use wooden bins to haul items to the trade depot, as long as you only offer the elves acceptable items from the bin and not the bins themselves.

Acceptable items[edit]

Any item that isn't specifically prohibited above is acceptable to elves. A non-exhaustive list of items they accept:

Items made from or decorated with stone, as well as raw clay or raw sand. This includes items made from petrified wood, lignite, or bituminous coal; elves aren't concerned with items that were plants or animals in a different geological age.
- Gizzard stones are acceptable. Elves can't tell them from any other object made of stone.
Items made from or decorated with metal (including steel), green glass, or ceramic. Elves are content to assume your dwarves fuel their craft with coke or magma rather than charcoal.
All rough gems and cut gems, as well as items and decorations made from gem materials. Note that clear glass and crystal glass are not gem materials and are generally not acceptable, even though they can be used for gem decorations and gem crafts.
- Due to a long-standing bug^Bug:919, elves do not examine the material rough gems or cut gems are made of. You can safely sell them raw clear or crystal glass, or clear or crystal glass cut gems.
Plant and fungus products in general. Unless otherwise prohibited, all of these items are acceptable either as themselves or as the material for an item or decoration:
- Plant crops, fruit/pods, seeds/nuts, and leaves/bulbs/flowers. Anything that can be harvested with herbalism or grown on a farm plot is one of these four, and considered acceptable. This includes non-wooden produce from trees.
- Plant fiber thread and cloth, and all items made from them.
- Processed plant products. This includes (but isn't limited to) booze, dye, flour, dwarven sugar and dwarven syrup, oil, press cake, papyrus, and paper.
Silk thread and cloth and items made from them. Elves don't care if you're exploiting spiders.
Products of the beekeeping industry, including honey, royal jelly, mead, wax, and wax crafts.
Prepared meals made entirely with allowed ingredients.
"Grown" wood items. These can generally only be obtained from elves, and were made in keeping with elven ethics. Note that these items can still become unacceptable if they contain unacceptable items or are decorated with unacceptable materials.
Items made from certain spoiler materials, if you're willing to give these up.
Live creatures or vermin. Since these can only be traded when in a cage or animal trap, make sure the cage or trap is also made of acceptable materials.
Soap made from oil. This may be a bug^Bug:8571, as even plant-based soap requires lye, which is made from ash. - TEST THIS: soap seems to be tagged IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL regardless of the source lipid?
Otherwise-acceptable items are not disqualified by ash glaze, which may be a bug^Bug:4652.

Untested items[edit]

Milk and cheese. These don't have IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL so I'm pretty sure they're okay
Venom - Likewise, although this will be hard to test
Extracts - Also likewise
Gem windows made of crystal or clear glass
Remains (can these even be hauled to the depot? I forget)
Codices and traction benches. These items can involve parchment sheets or wool ropes in their creation. Due to a bug^Bug:9409, they can lose the material definition from these components as part of assembling a quire into a codex or a table, rope, and mechanism into a traction bench. Note that a codex made with a wooden binding or a traction bench made with a wooden table would not be acceptable in any case.
Instruments are just a giant question mark
Scrolls made with scroll rollers made from wood or clear or crystal glass, or codices bound with hair or woolen thread.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==== Unacceptable items ====
-Elves [[Elf#Ethics|view]] living trees as sacred and dislike the killing of non-hostile animals; they're the only [[Ethic#Ethics of vanilla civilizations|unmodded civilization]] to do so. Offering them wood or animal-derived products will offend the merchant, causing the traders to leave immediately. This causes their mood to drop rapidly (which has no effect, as they refuse to trade after an offense) and reduces your [[civilization]]'s [[Diplomacy|diplomatic relationship]] with the elves, possibly leading to [[war]] after multiple offenses.
+Elves [[Elf#Ethics|view]] living trees as sacred and dislike the killing of non-hostile animals; they're the only [[Ethic#Ethics of vanilla civilizations|unmodded civilization]] to do so. Offering them wood or animal-derived products will offend the merchant. The merchant will rebuke your broker and leave immediately. This offense reduces your [[civilization]]'s [[Diplomacy|diplomatic relationship]] with the elves' civilization, possibly leading to [[war]] after multiple infractions.
-Offering the elves' objects made from wood prompts this rebuke:
+===== Items made from wood =====
-: ''"Once a beautiful tree, and now? It is a rude bauble, fit only for your kind."''
+{{quote|Once a beautiful tree, and now? It is a rude bauble, fit only for your kind.}}
+Elves do not want to be offered items you made from wood, nor do they want most items that require wood as part of their creation process.
-Unacceptable items include:
+* All items made of or decorated with [[wood]]. This includes wood from [[Tree#Underground tree|tree-like subterranean fungus]], such as [[tower-cap]]s. Elves make an exception for the "grown" wood items they make themselves, but items made by other races using "grown" wooden logs are still not acceptable.
-:* All items made of or decorated with [[wood]]. This includes wood from subterranean fungus "trees", like [[tower-cap]]s.
+* All items made of or decorated with wood derivatives. This includes [[ash]], [[potash]], [[pearlash]], [[charcoal]], and [[lye]]. Note the exception for ash-[[glaze]]d [[earthenware]] below, however.
-:* All items made of or decorated with wood derivatives. This includes [[ash]], [[potash]], [[pearlash]], [[charcoal]], and [[lye]]. Note the exception for ash-[[glaze]]d [[earthenware]] below, however.
+* Items made from or decorated with clear or crystal [[glass]], as these items require [[pearlash]] in their creation. Again, note the exception for raw or cut glass [[gem]]s below.
-:* Items made from or decorated with clear or crystal [[glass]], as these items require [[pearlash]] in their creation. Again, note the exception for raw or cut glass [[gem]]s below.
+* [[Obsidian]] [[short sword]]s. These require wood in their production, for the handle.
-:* [[Obsidian]] [[short sword]]s. These require wood in their production, for the handle.
+===== Animal products =====
+{{quote|I see your low race still revels in death. That poor, gentle creature...}}
 Elves also reject the majority of animal products. This taboo extends to items made from intelligent creatures, despite the fact that you may see elf [[historical figure]]s wearing items made from the hair or bones of their enemies.
-:"''I see your low race still revels in death. That poor, gentle creature...''"
+* Items and decorations made from [[body parts]], such as [[hair]], [[bone]]/[[skull]], [[shell]], [[horn]]/hoof/antler, and [[ivory]]/[[tooth]]. It also includes items dwarfs can't normally use for crafting, such as [[nail]]s, [[chitin]], and [[scale]]s.
+* [[Corpse]]s and [[body parts]] themselves, although these are usually worthless anyway.
-This includes:
+* [[Leather]] or [[parchment]]/vellum, and all items made from them. These are made from [[skin]]s.
-:* Items and decorations made from [[body parts]]. This includes [[hair]], [[bone]], [[shell]], [[horn]]/hoof/antler, [[ivory]]/[[tooth]], and [[parchment]]/vellum. This includes [[totem]]s, which can only be made from a [[skull]].
+* [[Wool]] [[yarn]] and [[cloth]], as well as all items made from them. It doesn't matter how well you treat your [[sheep]], elves still associate animal products with death.
-:* [[Corpse]]s and [[body parts]] themselves, although these are usually worthless anyway.
+* [[Meat]] (including [[prepared organs]]), [[fish]] (both raw and prepared), [[fat]], and [[tallow]]
-:* [[Leather]] and [[parchment]]/vellum, as these are made from [[skin]]s.
+* [[Egg]]s. Elves aren't keen on keeping chickens, either.
-:* [[Wool]] [[yarn]] and [[cloth]], as well as all items made from them. It doesn't matter how well you treat your [[sheep]], elves still associate animal products with death.
+* [[Prepared meals]] made using any of the above products.
-:* [[Fat]] and [[tallow]], [[meat]] (including [[prepared organs]]), and [[fish]] (both raw and prepared).
+* Tallow [[soap]]
-:* [[Prepared meals]] made using any of the above products.
+* [[Blood]], even if you somehow manage to get it into an elf-friendly container.
-:* Tallow [[soap]]
-Examine your items carefully! Elf traders will reject [[container]]s holding a prohibited item, acceptable items stored in a prohibited container, and all items «[[decoration|decorated]]» with a prohibited [[material]]. If you want to sell food or liquid to elves, it's best to use a [[large pot]] or one of their own grown wood barrels.
-Note that elves only care about the items they are actually offered. It's perfectly allowable to use wooden [[bin]]s to haul items to the depot, as long as you only offer the elves acceptable items from the bin and not the bins themselves.
-=====Acceptable items=====
-Assuming they are not otherwise disqualified with unacceptable decorations, these items are acceptable to elves:
-:* Items made from or decorated with [[stone]], as well as raw [[clay]] or raw [[sand]]. This includes items made from [[petrified wood]], [[lignite]], or [[bituminous coal]]; elves aren't concerned with items that were plants or animals in a different geological age.
-:* [[Silk]] items, including silk [[thread]] and [[cloth]] and items made from silk thread or cloth. Elves don't care if you're exploiting spiders.
-:* [[Plant]] and fungus products in general. Unless otherwise prohibited, all of these items are acceptable both as themselves or as the material for an item or decoration:
-:** Plant [[crop]]s, [[fruit]]/pods, [[seed]]s/nuts, and [[leaf|leaves]]/bulbs/flowers. Anything that can be harvested with [[herbalism]] or grown on a [[farm plot]] is one of these four, and considered acceptable. This includes non-wooden produce from trees.
-:** Plant-based [[thread]] and [[cloth]], and all items made from them. The [[Clothing industry#Thread Plants|clothing industry]] article has a full list of fibrous plants, if you don't know [[pig tail]] from a [[pig]].
-:** Processed plant products. This includes [[booze]], [[dye]] (and all dyed items), [[flour]], [[dwarven sugar]] and [[dwarven syrup]], [[oil]], [[press cake]], paste, [[slurry]], [[papyrus]], and [[paper]].
-:* [[Prepared meal]]s made entirely with allowed ingredients.
-:* Items made from or decorated with [[metal]], green [[glass]], or [[ceramic]]. Elves are content to assume your dwarves fuel their craft with [[coke]] or [[magma]] rather than [[charcoal]].
-:* [[Soap]] made from plant-based [[oil]]. This may be a bug{{bug|8571}}, as even plant-based soap requires [[lye]], which is made from [[ash]].
-:* Raw [[glass]] and cut glass [[gem]]s made of clear or crystal glass. Elves do not examine the material of rough or cut gems they accept in trade.{{bug|919}}
-:* Otherwise-acceptable items are not disqualified by [[ash]] [[glaze]], which may be a bug{{bug|4652}}.
+Examine your items carefully! Elf traders will reject [[container]]s holding a prohibited item, otherwise-acceptable items stored in a prohibited container, and all items «[[decoration|decorated]]» with a prohibited [[material]]. If you want to sell food or liquid to elves, it's best to use a [[large pot]] or one of their own grown wood barrels.
-:* Any of the above, regardless of who made them (i.e. from earlier trades, or captured gear from fallen enemies)
+Note that elves only care about the items they are actually offered. It's perfectly allowable to use wooden [[bin]]s to haul items to the [[trade depot]], as long as you only offer the elves acceptable items from the bin and not the bins themselves.
-However, [[stone]] and [[metal]] items, even when [[charcoal]] is used in production, are acceptable (since the elves are unfamiliar with metalworking, and do not know that charcoal is used to make metal items). Items made from [[silk]] are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as [[cloth]] and [[thread]]. You can also transport your goods to the [[trade depot]] in a wooden [[bin]], as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the [[cage]] or [[trap]] is not made of [[wood]].
+==== Acceptable items ====
+Any item that isn't specifically prohibited above is acceptable to elves. A non-exhaustive list of items they accept:
-Be especially careful with reselling decorated items from other caravans, as non-wood/glass items may have decorations of wood or clear/crystal glass. Note that "grown" wooden items from elven caravans ''can'' be resold to them, as the elves know that they were made in an elf-kosher way.
+* Items made from or decorated with [[stone]], as well as raw [[clay]] or raw [[sand]]. This includes items made from [[petrified wood]], [[lignite]], or [[bituminous coal]]; elves aren't concerned with items that were plants or animals in a different geological age.
+** [[Gizzard stone]]s are acceptable. Elves can't tell them from any other object made of stone.
+* Items made from or decorated with [[metal]] (including [[steel]]), green [[glass]], or [[ceramic]]. Elves are content to assume your dwarves fuel their craft with [[coke]] or [[magma]] rather than [[charcoal]].
+* All rough gems and cut gems, as well as items and decorations made from [[gem]] materials. Note that clear glass and crystal glass are not gem materials and are generally not acceptable, even though they can be used for [[Gem setting|gem decoration]]s and gem [[craft]]s.
+** Due to a long-standing bug{{bug|919}}, elves do not examine the material rough gems or cut gems are made of. You can safely sell them raw clear or crystal glass, or clear or crystal glass cut gems.
+* [[Plant]] and fungus products in general. Unless otherwise prohibited, all of these items are acceptable either as themselves or as the material for an item or decoration:
+** Plant [[crop]]s, [[fruit]]/pods, [[seed]]s/nuts, and [[leaf|leaves]]/bulbs/flowers. Anything that can be harvested with [[herbalism]] or grown on a [[farm plot]] is one of these four, and considered acceptable. This includes non-wooden produce from trees.
+** [[Plant fiber]] [[thread]] and [[cloth]], and all items made from them.
+** Processed plant products. This includes (but isn't limited to) [[booze]], [[dye]], [[flour]], [[dwarven sugar]] and [[dwarven syrup]], [[oil]], [[press cake]], [[papyrus]], and [[paper]].
+* [[Silk]] [[thread]] and [[cloth]] and items made from them. Elves don't care if you're exploiting spiders.
+* Products of the [[beekeeping industry]], including [[honey]], [[royal jelly]], [[mead]], [[wax]], and wax [[craft]]s.
+* [[Prepared meal]]s made entirely with allowed ingredients.
+* "Grown" wood items. These can generally only be obtained from elves, and were made in keeping with elven ethics. Note that these items can still become unacceptable if they contain unacceptable items or are decorated with unacceptable materials.
+* Items made from [[Adamantine|certain]] [[Divine metal|spoiler]] [[Divine fabric|materials]], if you're willing to give these up.
+* Live [[creature]]s or [[vermin]]. Since these can only be traded when in a [[cage]] or [[animal trap]], make sure the cage or trap is also made of acceptable materials.
+* [[Soap]] made from [[oil]]. This may be a bug{{bug|8571}}, as even plant-based soap requires [[lye]], which is made from [[ash]]. - TEST THIS: soap seems to be tagged IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL regardless of the source lipid?
+* Otherwise-acceptable items are not disqualified by [[ash]] [[glaze]], which may be a bug{{bug|4652}}.
-===== Untested items in .50 =====
+==== Untested items ====
-* [[Honey]], [[mead]], [[royal jelly]], and [[wax]]
+* [[Milk]] and [[cheese]]. These don't have [[Material definition token#IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL|IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL]] so I'm pretty sure they're okay
-* [[Milk]] and [[cheese]]
+* [[Venom]] - Likewise, although this will be hard to test
-* [[Extract]]s
+* [[Extract]]s - Also likewise
-* [[Gizzard stone]]s, either as themselves or as decorations
+* Gem windows made of crystal or clear glass
-* Items made from [[nail]]/claw/talon
+* [[Remains]] (can these even be hauled to the depot? I forget)
-* Items made from [[amber]], [[coral]], or [[pearl]].
 * [[Codex|Codices]] and [[traction bench]]es. These items can involve [[parchment]] [[sheet]]s or [[wool]] [[rope]]s in their creation. Due to a bug{{bug|9409}}, they can lose the material definition from these components as part of assembling a [[quire]] into a codex or a [[table]], rope, and [[mechanism]] into a traction bench. Note that a codex made with a [[wood]]en [[Book binding|binding]] or a traction bench made with a wooden table would not be acceptable in any case.
+* [[Instrument]]s are just a giant question mark
 * [[Scroll]]s made with [[scroll roller]]s made from [[wood]] or clear or crystal [[glass]], or [[Codex|codices]] bound with [[hair]] or [[wool]]en [[thread]].
-* [[Blood]] and [[venom]]. This is rarely relevant, since they can only be purchased in wooden barrels AFAIK.